Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Rob Brownfield

German and Leopard Brown Trout??
« on: 16/03/2012 at 09:19 »
I have been watching a couple of instructional vids online which are filmed in the US. The river they are fishing is in Utah and they refer to the Brown trout they catch as Browns, German Browns and Leopard Browns.

Am I missing something here? Are they destinctive strains?

The German Browns appear to be quite silvery, the leopard, well, the spots seem much bigger. The standard Browns are much like the Don Browns.

Stock fish? If wild would they not interbreed?
Sorry for all the questions, just seemed interesting that 3 strains live in the same river.


Loxiafan

Re: German and Leopard Brown Trout??
« Reply #1 on: 16/03/2012 at 12:00 »
Sounds interesting Rob, not heard of Leopard Trout, Tiger Trout yes. Sounds like 'local' terms for variation ?

Could be gene flow caused by stocking, or more likely natural diversity. It is in a populations interest to have natural variation or diversity - this is how speciation actually starts, and explains why some Brown Trout are sea run and others are river dwellers (though these are not classed as species). Some land locked lochs also seem to have a variety of Trout - some silver Loch Leven types, some yellow bellied etc which could be natural variation or due to whether or not stocking has occured in the past, or a combination of the two ? The two 'types', or sub-species, of Arctic Charr that were discovered in Loch Ness in the 80's is another example.

I raised the (possibly unpopular !) issue of stocking the Don with 'non genetic' stock in the recent thread Trout and Salmon Sunday Fishing Letter, and how this may not be as damaging as some may think, maybe not even at all if it is limited (which it was) - having some gene flow between populations can be beneficial and is something that seems to occur naturally within some populations. We might not even actually be able to define the pure 'genetic stock' of Don Trout anyway, but then again that doesn't mean that there isn't one, just that we can't 'measure' it !

Crossbills in Scotland fall in to 3, possibly even 4 types, 3 of which are recognized and categorized as 3 distinct 'species'. DnA studies show no significant genetic distinction between the three 'species', which suggest they do not breed in total assortative isolation, but that there must be some gene flow between the three 'species' or types. In theory they could be sub-species, though I accept that they are acting as 'species'. This adapts the population as a whole, and within each species category, to all environmental possibilities that may present themselves, including adverse ones - basically, it is Natural Selection ala Charles Darwin. I don't doubt that some trout populations that have access to the sea are potentially similar - a Dee Trout could breed in the Don, with a Don Trout and vice versa, even Tweed ones have been caught in the Ythan ( It think ??). If anyone has evidence of this (or not !) I'd be interested to hear.

Some river populations of Brown Trout are potentially a biological and genetic 'soup', and may be better equiped as a result of this diversity and variation, some of which occurs naturally ! Tell that to Mr. Thornton....actually don't or there'll be another letter next month !!

Lindsay

Jim Eddie

Re: German and Leopard Brown Trout??
« Reply #2 on: 16/03/2012 at 12:17 »
They are known as "German Browns" in some parts of the US as thats where the trout were originally  introduced  came from.

 "In North America, the brown trout is one of the few examples of an exotic species that was introduced with great success and general public approval, as it was not native to this continent until eggs from Germany arrived in February 1883, and fish were stocked that year in Michigan and New York."

 :z18

Jim

Rob Brownfield

Re: German and Leopard Brown Trout??
« Reply #3 on: 16/03/2012 at 23:57 »
They are known as "German Browns" in some parts of the US as thats where the trout were originally  introduced  came from.



Thought it might be something like that. I did not think America had history as far back as the 1800's ;)

Allan Liddle

Re: German and Leopard Brown Trout??
« Reply #4 on: 17/03/2012 at 09:35 »
They are known as "German Browns" in some parts of the US as thats where the trout were originally  introduced  came from.

 "In North America, the brown trout is one of the few examples of an exotic species that was introduced with great success and general public approval, as it was not native to this continent until eggs from Germany arrived in February 1883, and fish were stocked that year in Michigan and New York."

 :z18

Jim

As they were from Leven and Katerine strains from our own stock.

It has been said 'Leven Trout Conquered the World' testiment to the fact they were introduced throughout the globe following empire days or enterprising landowners or landowner factors.

I always thought that the American German Browns were traditional dark backed golden bellied colouration, not the silvery kind?  Original stock strain might have been with fish adapting colouration to suit particular waters?

Allan

 




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