[Iain Goolager]

A up Roberto,

Flickers and prop flies are spinners it matters not (to me) how you deploy them.............just as much as worming/ maggoting with a fly rod and floating line is still bait fishing.

Also...... BAN THE BLOB! BAN THE LURES! Only joking guys (I don't want to wake up with a WSW's head in my bed!)

Whether they would be more successful than more traditional fly methods is something I don't know and will personaly never find out but either way the Fishery Owner (as you said) sets the rules, however upsetting, and that's it.
It's one thing to have a barbless #10 lure (e.g) lost in a fish than to have a piece of Jimmy Savilles 'jewellery, jewellery' flapping about in its eating apparatus.

Tight Lines Rob

Iain

[Hamish Young]

Nice to see a counter view Rob - well done  

However:

Hmmmm...and now for something completely different 

Firstly, Hardy were selling and making "propeller" flies back in the 1800's....Arnt Hardy the ultimate fly fishing company 

Very true Rob, but that was the 1800's and not the 2000's  ~ although such things are still available and as I alluded to in a previous post some salmon flies even today (Frodin turbo disc) are 'borderline' between what's a fly and what's a spinner.

I am a little supprised that Mike thinks the flicker spoons does damage. The hook is, what, about a size 10? Same size as many "lures" used by anglers, so surely there is no difference in the potential damage caused to a fish if broken off?

I suspect it's the 'fisher' more than the actual spoon itself Rob - but I could be wrong. My view being that anyone daft enough to use one might not be the most experienced fishing 'hand' and therefore knots might not be right etc. The flicker spoons are likely to be hit hard by the fish so I'd imagine more breakages if using unsuitable kit.

Also, whats the difference between using a flicker spoon on a fly rod to using a fly such as a blob, that contains no natural material and is really designed to be an artificial bait rather than a water bourne creature?

Is it because its seen as spinning and therefore treated with disdain by fly anglers?..even though it is fished on fly gear?

Is it banned on many waters because it is too successful?

Interesting and very valid questions. I think you've pretty much got it in a nutshell with your second sentence there Rob. You're either fly fishing or you're not IMHO

and finally....if it is against the fishery rules, then my stance is the person should be asked to leave in no uncertain terms 
 

Exactly so - such methods are against the rules at Haddo therefore anyone who get's caught 'in the act' deserves to be frog-marched off the fishery

[Rob Brownfield]

Hmmmmm 

So, how do we quantify what a fly is? Would, for example, one of these be banned at Mikes?

It contains no natural fibres, it has a hard outer as its coated in epoxy..but is it a fly?

What about this? 

Its made of plastic and metal..same as a spinner is it not? 

and as for this.., I use these for Pike, Perch, Bass and Chub...on a fly rod, and its classed as fly fishing...

Oh my..where will it end

I am sure you know i am not being serious..but can anyone define the meaning of "Fly Fishing"???

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Rob

Great stuff ........ all views are good.

I've never banned anything for being too successful ( I want folk to catch plenty of fish ) It is the spinner blades and prop blades that I have a problem with, they are not going to do the inside of a fish any good.

In this case, both types of "fly" are very clearly a "spinning tool" to my eyes ........ you are right, there are many other types of flies that are difficult to class as "flies", but that is a huge minefield of a topic by itself.

Another "fly" that I would ask anglers not to use please is the one widely seen in magazines last year with plastic "wobble cones" mounted on the front like a rapala. I just see the plastic cone shaped thing as something else that could harm a fish.

But we digress ..... if something is against the fishery rules, there will be a reason, so please don't ignore the rules.

Best wishes
Mike

[snakefly]

this might sound a bit naff but whats a wobble cone .  never heard of one before.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Snakefly

Sort of a cone or cup that you put at the front of your fly before tying the pattern, with the cone facing forwards. This is to make your fly wobble like a rapala type spinner

See http://www.lakelandflytying.com/1879/Cones/Marc_Petitjean_Magic_Heads.aspx



Best wishes
Mike

[Iain Goolager]

Mike,
I assume that the plastic cone can be inverted so that the leader material can be threaded through the eye?

If Salmon Turbo Tubes are hard to cast then that wobble cone must be a right pig.

Rob,
Whats the material you use on those Pike Flies.

Iain

[Mike Barrio]

Mike,
I assume that the plastic cone can be inverted so that the leader material can be threaded through the eye?

If Salmon Turbo Tubes are hard to cast then that wobble cone must be a right pig.

Rob,
Whats the material you use on those Pike Flies.

Iain

Hi Iain

Yes, it looks easy enough to invert the cone to tie the leader on.

Cheers
Mike

[Rob Brownfield]

Mike,
I did not know folk were usoing those cones for trout???? I have only seen them in relation to Pike/Saltwater flies.

Iain,
I use EP Fibres (Enrico Puglisi) You can get them from Orvis, Flytek, or...the cheapest in the UK, http://www.lakelandflytying.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=220

The fibres are great for salmon flies too and can be shaped with scissors and coloured with pen if need be

[Kev Danby]

Rob you dont have a step by step for those do you or know where to find one.

[Rob Brownfield]

They are dead easy to tie using the hi-tie principle

A slightly different version that gives a much more pronounced "3d" profile is availanble here

http://www.flytek.co.uk/acatalog/FlyTek_Tutorials.html

You can see its dead easy and the principle can be used for tubes etc. On the Flytek verstion he epoxies the head, I dont normally do this as i like my flies to "hang" mid water when I pause...but i do have some epoxied ones as well.

Hope this helps...any probs give me a shout and I could come and show you.

one thing..if you are going to put "sparkle" through them, make sure its a tiny amount and very fine stuff (angel hair) otherwise you dont get a smooth profile.

Hooks are improtant too...for the "Hi tie" ones I use Gamakatsu C15's in 3/0 but for the 3D fly I use Maruta Aberdeens in "Heavy" as these give a good wide gape and longish shank.