Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Jonty Goodchild

Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« on: 25/06/2022 at 08:37 »
Good Morning All, thank you for accepting my application to join the group. I love fishing very small salmon streams, The Borgie being one of them. Even with water I am fishing light with either an #8 trout rod or my 10’11” Salmologic switch which is rated 18 gram which again  is about the same as a #8 trout rating.

In low water this is, in my opinion, still too heavy a line to be landing on the small pools so I would fish a #6 10ft trout rod. I do enjoy Spey casting, getting into the rhythm of it over the day and not worrying about what is behind you and I find a small double hander great.
Does anyone have any experience or recommendations for a very lightweight trout Spey style double handed rod which is a #6 trout equivalent and do you think it will handle grilse in the 3-6lb category? I have had made a scandi style line with a head of 14 gram (220 grain - about a trout #6) and integrated running line  made by Steve Godshall in USA. Just need a rod.
I know Sage do the a Trout Spey in a #2 which they say is rated 14 gram (220 grain) but will it have the backbone I need (also v expensive). Orvis do a 11ft 4 for a #3 in The Clearwater and The Mission which they say is rated 210 gram and Vision  do a Baby Spey but this is rated 14 gram to 20 gram which seems strangely large grain window.
I am a little concerned over an overly soft rod not being able to handle fish properly.
Any advice greatly appreciated

Mike Barrio

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #1 on: 25/06/2022 at 10:52 »
Hi Jonty ..... Welcome to the forum  :z16

I don't fish a Trout Spey rod ( although I have cast a few ) so I can't offer you any informed advice I'm afraid. I fully understand the enjoyment of the double handed casting side of things on these rods, it's great fun.

I know there are a few forumites that fish with them, so you'll hopefully get some replies that are more useful than mine.

Best wishes
Mike

Jonty Goodchild

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #2 on: 25/06/2022 at 16:32 »
Thanks Mike

Terry Coging

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #3 on: 25/06/2022 at 16:56 »
Hello Jonty. I have fished almost exclusively with a 15' long  6-10 gram rod for the past 5 years. Mostly from a boat for trout using a 3 weight line (Barrio Smallstream mainly) and fish up to 7lb have been no problem.  Casting gold heads and tungsten head flies on long leaders is easy. Not had the chance to try it on rivers for grilse or sea trout yet but would feel quite confident to do so.

James Laraway

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #4 on: 25/06/2022 at 20:31 »
So, back in the day when Mr Mortesen ( excuse my spelling) was Mr Zpey I got a #6 switch (reel steel) with detachable handle. An awesome wee rod that I had an accident with in Orkney...I digress...

I see Zpey still do a switch with detachable handle but in a #7.

The rod I have is superb still ( I repaired it) and the engineering on the detachable handle is rock solid.

Ive not used Zpey 'new co' but I'd have a look if I were you. You just keep the extension in your pocket till you need it when pop it in in seconds. Awesome idea not like this trout spey marketing crap 😆

Jonty Goodchild

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #5 on: 25/06/2022 at 21:25 »
Thank you James. I actually have one of the “new co” Mortensen rods, a Salmologic Serenity 10’11” rated 18 gram which is very good. I want to keep the length  at around 11ft and a proper double hander but rated around 14-15 grams for real low water. You are right, I don’t like the phrase “trout spey”, they are basically short very light double handed rods and should be called such. You can say the same about switch rods which I am a fan of but again as double handed rods.

Will Shaw

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #6 on: 25/06/2022 at 23:18 »
Hi Jonty

I have the Clearwater 11ft #3, and use the Rio #3 Trout Spey on it (17.2g). I'll typically use it with a 15-20ft mono leader in low water, and either 10ft trout polyleaders or 10ft Scandi versileaders if I want to  dig in a bit. For very low/clear water I think a #6wt trout line on a S/H rod would be more stealthy - but the 11ft D/H is a lot of fun. The line I use has a lot of oomph to shift heavier versileaders and big flies, and in tight spots with no D-loop room a static roll cast will easily get you to 60ft. I haven't tried it with a lighter (#2) head, but I think it would probably work.

In terms of handling fish, with low-ish rod angles it's much more about tippet strength than rod strength, and I've had no problems with fish into mid-doubles. I don't mess around playing fish and they're usually in the net in a couple of minutes. FWIW I think I can get fish in quicker with a S/H trout rod.

Another thought: The Rio TS line on a 9ft-er still flies! So a #2 on a 6wt SH trout rod could be brilliant.

Jonty Goodchild

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #7 on: 26/06/2022 at 09:55 »
That’s really helpful thanks. On the Orvis website they recommend 210 grain (14 gram) scandi and 260 (17 gram) skagit and a general range of 180 to 280 so you are right up there at the top end which makes sense if you are wanting to turnover 10 ft tips and reasonable sized flies as you suggest. I would be using it for size 14 wee doubles and just a mono leader as I have a rod at the 18 gram end. Have you tried the rod with a lighter line at all more in tune with their scandi recommendation of 14 grams? Did I see in an old post you fished a Barrio SLX #7 line on it which I believe is 15 grams and did it load the rod ok if fishing small flies and just a mono leader?

Will Shaw

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #8 on: 26/06/2022 at 14:49 »
Hiya

Yep, forgot to say I've used the SLX #7 on the Clearwater, and it's fine. Great if you have a little more room and you don't need 10ft heavier tips and bigger flies. I'm often in really tight spots and in spring I'm fishing faster polyleaders and weighted flies, so the shorter TS line is more versatile in that situation. I do love the SLX generally though, a great Spey casting and general river line.

My experience with the shorter heads like the TS line is that rods have a very wide tolerance and will chuck most things irresepctive of what it says on the blank!  :)  They're so easy to cast with all the weight under the rod tip and they'll also chuck a massive range of poly/versileaders and fly sizes. The only time the TS line struggled for me was with a 10 ultra-fast salmon versileader and tungsten tube.

I may get a #2 TS and try it on the Clearwater. It'll go a treat on my #6 SH rod too.

Hope this helps

W.

Jonty Goodchild

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #9 on: 26/06/2022 at 17:17 »
 Very helpful thank you. The Clearwater is definitely an option. The #7 SLX, did it load the rod ok for Spey and also overhead? Like the idea of the TS line but wonder if it is a bit clunky?

Will Shaw

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #10 on: 26/06/2022 at 17:38 »
Hiya

Can’t remember if I tried overhead with the SLX. The TS overheads like a rocket!  The #7 SLX  felt just right for me for Speys.  The #6 felt a little light to me on the Clearwater. Your mileage may vary!

The TS is definitely heavier in the tip than an SLX, but with a long leader (15ft+), it doesn’t feel clunky.

If you’re on open water and you aren’t going to be throwing big flies and long/sinky leaders, then go for the SLX, it’ll be fine. The TS is more of an all round piece of kit for me on my river.

Jonty Goodchild

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #11 on: 26/06/2022 at 20:12 »
Thanks for all the advice. I see they also do an Orvis Mission 11’4” #3 now also.

Will Shaw

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #12 on: 30/06/2022 at 18:37 »
Hey Jonny
Just to say I tried a #2 TS (14.9g) on the Clearwater today. It worked nicely. I even (just for interest) tried a 10ft extra super fast trout polyleader on it, which just about worked (just!).

Cheers

Will

Andrew Gilmour

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #13 on: 01/07/2022 at 19:05 »
Just to mix things up a little, my trout Spey outfit is an 11’ #4 Loop Q Switch with a 275gr OPST commando smooth line.

Probably a little heavier than you were looking for, but I would strongly recommend the OPST lines for ease of casting.

You just need to remortgage your house to be able to afford them, given the current USD:GBP exchange rate.

Ivor Duffus

Re: Trout Spey Rod For Small River Grilse?
« Reply #14 on: 08/07/2022 at 15:10 »
I was wondering about a trout rated rod with a changeable butt Myself for Spey Casting.

I was thinking about having a go at building a budget rod myself,  obviously if Shakespeare can produce the finished rod for £100; quid it would make no sense for me to spend double that and make a hash of it doing it myself.  And it would probably not be used much either.


Just wondering if it’s possible to pick a blank on eBay for £60 /70. Thinking about a 6/7 wt. 10ft or 10 1/2ft


Ivor

 




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