Fishing The Fly Forum, based in Aberdeenshire,  Scotland

James Laraway

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2019, 11:01:35 AM »
James the grouse moor owners say 155million goes into the economy, so why do they need 4million of a grant? . why the manicured moors? this isn't for the benefit of the grouse but for the convenience of the beaters, grouse have existed on un managed moors since Noah was a lad and they are still here, they co-existed with the Mountain hare, perhaps in those days they were immune to Tick born fever, who knows?, I know man has altered the land until very little , if any,truly wild  land exists, I know jobs are at a premium in rural areas, but how many are there on grouse moors, really? a couple of keepers and some summer time students?I didn't come down with the last shower of rain, the Eagle with the trap actually has the trap on it's leg ,I,m sorry if my attitude offends you , but I am entitled to my opinions , as are you ,but we must agree to disagree, life is too short, Derek Roxborough

you attitude most certainly does not offend me in any way Derek. We all have our views.
You clearly grew up in the countryside so have some very valuable perspectives and views.
Managed moors I don't have an issue with. Should they get subsidies ? Sadly almost everything is subsidised these days - even through the people who get the subsidies are super rich and don't need the money.
As for the eagle photo, if  it idoes have a trap on its leg that is very sad and I hope it can be caught and saved. Im just very dubious of anything that is posted on the internet these days - are there are so many people willing to fake things to stir up trouble..

Derek Roxborough

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2019, 14:34:02 PM »
north Yorks Moors do have muir burn but not to the same extent as the central Highlands, read my post about moorland manicures, Grouse and other moorland creatures have been quite happy to live and thrive on these moors for Millenia, before man could use more than a hawk to get a grouse, even when early firearms were around , flintlocks had a flash before the actual explosion this gave  a warning of sorts to the birds and other animals,so grouse lived happily with out mans interference,don't try and blow smoke and make me think that grouse couldn't survive with out mans intervention, at my age I'm not so gullible, we lost harriers and merlins here because of the increase in sheepstock and the Idea that burning off would benefit the sheep, burning so much that about 12 years ago it went into the peat and burned for 7 or 8weeks
this was done by crofters, our club lost a boat ,due to this burning, not for grouse but for sheep, if , as you said the 4mill. was a farming subsidy then it was not  made clear on the news only that it was a payment to the estates, after living working and observing for over 50years in the highlands, I don't just accept all I see or hear,an example was when I worked in a hatchery, and we were told of the thousands of jobs in the salmon farming industry, as the job I had took me to most of the fish farms through out the north, where , if there was 20 people employed , after multilplying this by the no. of sites came to less than 2,500, and there were sites with a lot less than 20, some times only 5 or 6, I use this as an example of misinformation around, and I know it works both ways, I have been away from fishing because of an injury , but I am hoping to get back to it very very soon, like this weekend given the weather, :z12
Derek Roxborough 

Bob Mitchell

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2019, 21:30:01 PM »
Without muirburn there would be nothing but dead heather. If you ever see the damage that the heather beetle does  and how the land is after it you would be wanting the heather strip burned as at present. Sheep would have no grass as the heather just chocks everything else.
The traps mentioned earlier in tunnels are not gin traps which have been illegal since 1956. They probly were Fenn traps which kill instantly if properly set.
I know that the chances of both sides [R.S.P.B. and moorland owners] getting together is highly unlikely but one can live in hope.
Bob.

Derek Roxborough

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2019, 21:34:12 PM »
you attitude most certainly does not offend me in any way Derek. We all have our views.
You clearly grew up in the countryside so have some very valuable perspectives and views.
Managed moors I don't have an issue with. Should they get subsidies ? Sadly almost everything is subsidised these days - even through the people who get the subsidies are super rich and don't need the money.
As for the eagle photo, if  it idoes have a trap on its leg that is very sad and I hope it can be caught and saved. Im just very dubious of anything that is posted on the internet these days - are there are so many people willing to fake things to stir up trouble..
the eagle photo was in the papers and on the STV news the other night
Derek Roxborough

Derek Roxborough

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2019, 21:40:53 PM »
Without muirburn there would be nothing but dead heather. If you ever see the damage that the heather beetle does  and how the land is after it you would be wanting the heather strip burned as at present. Sheep would have no grass as the heather just chocks everything else.
The traps mentioned earlier in tunnels are not gin traps which have been illegal since 1956. They probly were Fenn traps which kill instantly if properly set.
I know that the chances of both sides [R.S.P.B. and moorland owners] getting together is highly unlikely but one can live in hope.
Bob.
the heather on the loch Maree Islands is thriving without being Burnt , OK it's about 5ft high in places with stems about  1 inch or more thick, and on the new afforestation it's  about the same and the grouse seem to like it, it would seem it's only humans that don't like it , it's a bugger to walk in but not much  worse than walking through burnt heather which knocks hell out of yer boots, Derek Roxborough

Bob Mitchell

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2019, 08:26:07 AM »
Have been shooting/working on moors for to many years.
Is there any harriers on your island.
Good luck.
Bob.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:02:09 AM by Bob Mitchell »

Derek Roxborough

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2019, 11:55:53 AM »
not particularly a shooter, I have no issues with people who shoot for the pot, I have done this in the past, I have walked on much moorland through out the UK , and for the  last 50+ years in the highlands, I have eyes and can see what is going on, any one that tells me that the moors are managed to benefit the Grouse are Havering,     :z12      D W Roxborough

Derek Roxborough

Re: Managing Grouse moors
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2019, 17:02:45 PM »
no but we have Sea eagles and Black throated Divers and occasional Rough legged buzzards, the harriers that nested near us nested in mature heather ,it's what gave them suitable cover, but regular burning and increased sheepstock , made it difficult for them,and the merlins, Derek Roxborough

 




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