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Terryll Monroe

New species of Brown trout
« on: December 03, 2018, 16:18:46 PM »
I looked to see if you all have posted this, and I didn't see anything, so I thought I'd share this information if you didn't already know.

I just quickly copied the article found in BBC News.

A distinct "species" of brown trout that has never been reported before has been discovered in a Perthshire loch.

The specimen was one of four species of the fish found in Loch Laidon, suggesting biodiversity in freshwater habitats is greater than first thought.

The new species differs from the common form in having lighter skin, and a larger mouth and eyes.

It was discovered by a team from Inverness College, which is part of the University of the Highlands & Islands.

The study, led by Prof Eric Verspoor, found four genetically, ecologically and visually distinctive species that have evolved in the loch over the last 10,000 years.

One of the species, a "Profundal Benthivore", has not as yet been reported to occur in any other loch in the brown trout's native range.

It inhabits the deep, dark waters of the loch where little light penetrates and feeds on organisms on the loch bottom.

Prof Verspoor, director of the college's Rivers and Lochs Institute, said: "This is essentially a distinct species of brown trout, never before reported, and the total number of forms found in Loch Laidon is the highest number so far found in a single lake.

"While that in itself is exciting, what's more significant is that the study strongly suggests that the amount of biodiversity in Scotland's lochs, and indeed many of the freshwater lakes in the northern hemisphere, has been massively underestimated.

"This is because, unfortunately, few of our lochs have so far been studied with methods such as those we employed that are better able to resolve such diversity when it exists.

"Thus findings such as those for Loch Laidon may well be the tip of a biodiversity iceberg in Scottish and other northern lakes; the true size of this iceberg will only become clear once we study more lakes using methods such as those we employed."

The research on the Laidon trout by Professor Verspoor and Dr Mark Coulson, of the Rivers and Lochs Institute, and co-workers was published in the journal Freshwater Biology.





« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 08:25:28 AM by Hamish Young »

Hamish Young

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2018, 08:22:25 AM »
It's an interesting article which I had read elsewhere too.

Does tend to take you down the route of asking:

1. Are Sea Trout a different species :?
2. Are Ferox :?
3. OK, what about 'Gilaroo' Trout :?
4. Alrighty then, Dollaghan :?
5. Fine.... so how about Sonaghan :?

It's a mystery  :wink

H
“When tired at last, he sat on the bank, while the river still chattered on to him, a babbling procession of the best stories in the world, sent from the heart of the earth to be told at last to the insatiable sea.”

James Craig

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2018, 09:53:27 AM »
Semantics aside, Trout of the World by James Prosek is both fascinating and beautiful. One of my favourite books fishing related or not.

Rob Brownfield

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 08:26:21 AM »
It's an interesting article which I had read elsewhere too.

Does tend to take you down the route of asking:

1. Are Sea Trout a different species :?
2. Are Ferox :?
3. OK, what about 'Gilaroo' Trout :?
4. Alrighty then, Dollaghan :?
5. Fine.... so how about Sonaghan :?

It's a mystery  :wink

H

I can't help think that this "species" tag is a bit misleading.

"Lighter skin and larger mouth and eyes...."

Imagine if we looked at humans and said "oh, they have lighter skin and blue eyes, they are a different species".

Genetic variation, yes, new species? Nope!
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Hamish Young

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 17:43:32 PM »
Aye, pretty much my thoughts Rob  :wink
“When tired at last, he sat on the bank, while the river still chattered on to him, a babbling procession of the best stories in the world, sent from the heart of the earth to be told at last to the insatiable sea.”

Terry Coging

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2018, 18:29:29 PM »
I am also confused  about this 'species' thing.  A fishes habitat dictates it's features. Even the season does that too.  An early season Gillaroo looks different to a Summer fish. Even different parts of the Lough produce fish of varying colour. Where do we draw the line between 'species'?


Rob Brownfield

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 08:48:06 AM »
I asked a scientist.....the joys of living with one lol....

Species....basically something that is similar in appearance and capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. So, Humand are a species, but we have variations.

So, I would guess that if it is a new "species" then it cannot interbreed with Brown Trout.

I have to say, some of the recent "science" story's from the BBC have been very misleading or inaccurate. One that springs to mind is the "discovery" that if you break off a bit of hard coral, it will regrow. This means you can take "cuttings" and re-populate coral reefs.

Trouble is, the Aquarium hobby has been doing this for some 40 years, its called "fragging".  It is actually big business with companies setting up fragging factories to supply no only the hobby but to re-populate the reefs.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Terryll Monroe

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 14:22:04 PM »
I asked a scientist.....the joys of living with one lol....

Species....basically something that is similar in appearance and capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. So, Humans are a species, but we have variations.

So, I would guess that if it is a new "species" then it cannot interbreed with Brown Trout.

That is the best ever definition of species I have ever heard. 

So yes, if it is a new species, it should not be able to interbreed.  But that leads to the question; because I'm not a scientist,  but they can take a walleye and a sauger and make a saugeye,  and take a white bass and a striped bass and make a wiper.  But these fish, saugeye and wipers are man made.  This new species of brown isn't.  And obviously it can breed unlike hybrid fish like the tiger musky,  saugeye and other man made frankensteinish fish. 

It could very well be just a variation.  I know large mouth bass when in deep water lose their color,  but when they hang in the shallows for awhile they become a beautiful color green with black markings.  But their eyes don't get bigger or smaller.  Walleye have large eyes because they like to hang on the bottom, but they will also darken up when the come into shallow water.

I'd like to hear more if they come up with anything else.

Euan Innes

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 17:49:16 PM »
"I have to say, some of the recent "science" story's from the BBC have been very misleading or inaccurate."
Surely not Rob..... :mad :mad :mad

A few years back I fished Loch Beannach up by Lochinver, and a splendid day it was too. Of the 30+ troot that happened to like what I was chucking at them, they were all a variation of the basic brown trout. Some were more golden, some a bit silver, some with more spots, some with less and some with a brighter or darker red on the spots.
The one that stands out most was not huge, not acrobatic and not malformed in any way. It was almost black! I had drifted down the east side of the big island and I made a heading change towards the south eastern shore and I noticed a deep dark hole with two boulders on the shore making a small amphitheatre. My brain said "there's a troot in there", my arm cast the line and the blackest troot I have ever seen grabbed my Claret Bumble.
A new species? Nope, just a Predator style camouflage!. Trout blend in and those changes are passed on in the genes.
He was only just under the pound but I was chuffed that I could spot where a likely troot would live and more chuffed on finding a "new species" :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4.

Euan
Living with deep, full breaths is the way of the trout. Fish, it seems, are the ultimate teachers in breathing.
RC Cone

Bob Mitchell

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 09:58:12 AM »
At one time Loch Leven fish were stocked all over the world. Remember  that they were bars of silver. Wonder what happened to them.
Bob.

Rob Brownfield

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 11:40:07 AM »
At one time Loch Leven fish were stocked all over the world. Remember  that they were bars of silver. Wonder what happened to them.
Bob.

That's what Loch of Skene was stocked with originally.

With the continued eutrophication of the loch I fear there are not many left :(

Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Derek Roxborough

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 22:41:55 PM »
the early Observers series of books had all the trout variations but then they were all thought to be just environmental variations and they were left out of future publications,just shows you? Derek Roxborough

Hamish Young

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 14:55:00 »
I confess that I dismiss the concept that these fish are a 'new species' I see them as a strain which seems far more reasonable to me and fits in better with my undertanding of 'how things are' and indeed how adaptable our Trout are to their environment.  I'd maintain that is equally a good representation of good bio-diversity.

I can cope with the 'Laidon benthic strain' of Brown trout,  that's reasonable.
I cannot deal with the idea of calling that a new species Salmo Laidon Benthivourous (possibly the right Latin  :? :!) becuase it's a Brown Trout that has adapted to specific conditions in its environment  :wink

H
“When tired at last, he sat on the bank, while the river still chattered on to him, a babbling procession of the best stories in the world, sent from the heart of the earth to be told at last to the insatiable sea.”

Terry Coging

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 17:26:32 »
Are black, white, yellow and brown people all of a different species? I don't think so! We have an amazing diversity and we interbreed.  Why are trout so special that we call a slightly different shape or colour a 'new species'? The cynical me thinks it may be due to scientists having to strengthen their claims to get funding and I don't blame them for that if it is the only way. The research is to be encouraged, but the claims?

Derek Roxborough

Re: New species of Brown trout
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 21:37:39 »
Ah! fishery scientists what have they ever done for us? :X2 Derek Roxborough

 




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