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Ivor Duffus

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2017, 20:19:15 PM »
Yes indeed good point you still have the crap to deal with  :z16. But am guessing closed containment is still 10 years down the line so hopefully  solutions will be found.

then again it would be no surprise if nothing at all  happens in Scotland and salmon farming expands offshore  :mad :mad

Bob Mitchell

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2017, 10:18:22 AM »
Can not see closed containment being 100% working for us.  That would mean that sites could be set up anywhere in the world and using Scottish eggs/smolts called "Scottish salmon" same idea as beef. [Our fore bearers took Loch Leven eggs all over the world]
The waste from the farms, someone will find a use for perhaps fertilizer for gardens/farming or something along those lines.
What ever happens we must keep the farms or the wild salmon will be completely killed off.
I know what over half a century of keeping ones eyes open has shown me.
Bob.

Ivor Duffus


Derek Roxborough

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2017, 16:06:36 PM »
any shore based system will have to have Industrial effluent discharge consent, the hatchery I worked at had 2 problems  , one was treatable with chloramine, this was Costia magnified by  the close confinement system , the second was Glochidiosis caused by the Pearl Mussels in the river , untreatable , now there is a Marine species of Costia , it may proliferate with the close confinement of the salmon ,  so more chemicals, the solids can be settled out in fresh water these would be useable on the land , but can the same be said when you have  salt in the mix?,some hatcheries used Anti Biotics in large quantities, some salmon farms used to used A/Bs as a profilactic.  According to the Times  today 22,000 tonnes of salmon died on Scottish salmon farms last year, 1/3 rd of that was on marine harvest farms, this salmon was used in Methane digesters to generate electricity , you would think after the years of experience these Salmon farmers have they would get it right, can we trust them with on shore systems?
  :z8  Derek Roxborough

James Laraway

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2017, 09:26:58 AM »
You have to ask whether any other industry 'gets away with' what the fish farming one does in terms of postitioning of the cages, sea lice, use of chemicals etc. In this day in age the answer is probably no. Other polluting industries have to smarten up their act - so why not fish farming ?

What i also dont get it why dont the 'Green' party step in ?

They hold the balance of power in Holyrood- without them the SNP are out on their ear.

 How can the 'Greens' think its OK to pollute the sea, impact wild salmon and also when i takes more fishmeal to produce an equivalent weight of farmed fish. How sustainable is that ?

Derek Roxborough

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2017, 12:02:49 PM »
how green are the "green" party? Derek  Roxborough

James Laraway

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2017, 21:45:04 PM »
Even the One Show got in on the act tonight investigating the salmon farming industry , particularly highlighting that 25% of farmed salmon die of disease or infestation

Derek Roxborough

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2017, 22:37:25 PM »
22,000 tons dead last year sent to anaerobic digester to make methane,  ??? Derek Roxborough

James Laraway

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2017, 09:39:32 AM »
they have the follow up tonight, speaking to the industry who will no doubt say 'we have it well under control'..

Great timing by the One Show as this will make a lot of people think twice about  buying smoked salmon at Christmas, hopefully..

what i found disgusting is that they could load a non-watertight lorry with dead and rotting fish and then drive it for 2 days through towns etc leaving a trail of stinking 'sludge'. Surely you are not allowed to do that ?

Bob Mitchell

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2017, 10:23:07 AM »
As I said in the local paper the Green party want to be careful not to upset the S.N.P.
The fish farmers are holding the government to ransom like a lot of other multy million pound companies. If you make us obey all the laws then we will close and there will be thousands of jobs lost. Black mail works if you are big enough.
Bob.

Derek Roxborough

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2017, 12:28:46 PM »
 If you do the figures there aren't that many jobs actually on the farms now , the hatchery I worked had 7 staff now has 3, and the nearest sea site had 16 now has 6, Ok there are spin offs  such as transport and processing, but there was a rumour that there was vested interests in the Scottish Parliament, my take is that there are now a lot less jobs in the industry than there once  was, but the high heed yins still like their perks, and they have to keep the investors happy, but then I am a cynical git, :X2  Derek Roxborough

James Laraway

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2017, 12:51:23 PM »
As I said in the local paper the Green party want to be careful not to upset the S.N.P.
The fish farmers are holding the government to ransom like a lot of other multy million pound companies. If you make us obey all the laws then we will close and there will be thousands of jobs lost. Black mail works if you are big enough.
Bob.

The SNP need the Greens far more than the other way round Bob.

I honestly dont think that there are that many jobs in fish farming compared to those in 'wild fish' jobs - hotels, restaurants, bars, tackle shops, gillies you name it.

The SG should just call their bluff - lets face it where else will they go ? Nobody else really wants such a polluting industry.

I know 'big industry' can weild some degree of power but that has to be balanced in what they contribute to the economy. I really dont think the salmon farming industry comtributes much - maybe a few hundred jobs - lets even go wild and say 2000. This pales into insignificance when you look at say the oil industry that has lost many 10s of thousands, contributes millions to goverment coffers yet you dont see the governement suddenly  letting the oil industry cut corners and being allowed to pollute like the fish farming industry does....

the one show will be interesting again tonight. Shame countryfile do as 'tough ' an investigation as the one show seem to be able to do...

Derek Roxborough

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2017, 16:23:39 PM »
James , did you read my post?  :z18  Derek Roxborough

Bob Mitchell

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2017, 09:18:12 AM »
Watched the bit on the One show last night.
In my view there was nothing  said that was new and I thought the presenter was very timid. He admitted that closed containment was many years away. Made out that they were now using wrasse to eat the sea lice which would solve the problem. Chemicals were just shrugged off by the fish farmer rep.
Agree that the S.N.P. need the Green party more than the other way around. To me this gives the "green party  "a stronger hand.
Still think that looking after the rivers and dealing with goosanders is the starting point.
When I started fishing my stretch of the River Earn there were vast shoals of Grayling turning the river grey at spawning time [May] Fishing in the evening it was like rain the parr feeding on the surface. Watching up to 70 goosanders flying upstream for a few years and the grayling/browns and parr have all mostly gone.
Bob.

Rob Brownfield

Re: Marine Scotland conservation measures - 2018
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2017, 13:41:38 PM »
I know on the issue of Pacific Salmon the Scottish Government have washed their hands of it..saying to the Salmon boards "You deal with it".

My own view is that the SG is in a dilemma. It hates the thought of land and fishing rights being in the hands of the "privileged" or "tories"..because if you own land and fishing that's what you must be...apparently...and I don't think it can be seen to support "the privileged" salmon angler or fishing owners as that goes against the policies it is putting in place to ensure land and associated rights are "given to the public".  After all, little Billy Wallace off a council estate can't afford to go salmon fishing...so why should anyone else.

The Greens are behind the scenes, wanting a ban on angling. In their policies they clearly state "We shall extend the Animal Welfare Act to cover all fishing activities. "  This means that catching fish will be classed as wilfully injuring and tormenting an animal. The SG may just need their help and may just ban angling....I don't think its as far fetched as it may first seem.

But that's another dilemma for the SG. They support fish farming (despite failing to disclose the true figures of mortality and disease rates) yet the Greens want it banned. No conflict there then!
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

 




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