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Terry Coging

Graphene - the future?
« on: October 19, 2017, 11:35:41 AM »
Who will be the first blank manufacturer to utilise this revolutionary material? There is talk of  tennis racquet's and golf club applications but it is years away.  We may see rods where the cork grip is the bulk of the weight! Just think about a 2 gram blank - the mind boggles.
I suppose that the first will just introduce a bit of graphene as a marketing ploy.
The leader materials of the future could be even more mind boggling.

Mike Barrio

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 15:24:08 PM »
Is Scott Mackenzie not already doing these?
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

James Laraway

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 16:21:30 PM »
i believe Hamish isnt on the forum much these days as he's busy enjoying some quiet time with his Mackenzie FX1  :z4

Terry Coging

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 16:48:18 PM »
It may be several years before production levels of this material filters into the sports equipment scene, but who knows?
The R&D involved may restrict development to giants such as Shimano.
Imagine a leader material as gossamer as a money spiders filament.

Mike Barrio

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 16:56:12 PM »
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Hamish Young

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 18:46:49 PM »
Graphene is indeed at the forefront of the Mackenzie rod developments, the FX1 was the first double handed rods to use Graphene (yes, I do own one!) and I can confirm that Scott has single handers coming shortly which have been developed using Graphene. Yes, I have tried them! Yes... they are more than just good!
“When tired at last, he sat on the bank, while the river still chattered on to him, a babbling procession of the best stories in the world, sent from the heart of the earth to be told at last to the insatiable sea.”

Terry Coging

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2017, 10:37:28 AM »
Brilliant - a British company does it again.  :cool: They deserve success and I look forward to seeing a single handed version.
I am assuming that the blanks will have to contain other materials to support the graphene?

I was thinking about the possibilities with this exotic material, which is still it's early stages of development. If the material could be extruded it would open up  a huge range of applications. I did not realise that sheet form was already available on the open market.

Hamish Young

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 07:47:32 AM »
I am assuming that the blanks will have to contain other materials to support the graphene?
F1 racecar quality carbon in the case of Mackenzie rods.

“When tired at last, he sat on the bank, while the river still chattered on to him, a babbling procession of the best stories in the world, sent from the heart of the earth to be told at last to the insatiable sea.”

Rob Brownfield

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 10:46:15 AM »
Brilliant - a British company does it again.  :cool: They deserve success and I look forward to seeing a single handed version.
I am assuming that the blanks will have to contain other materials to support the graphene?

According to the old MacKenzie website, graphene was introduced into the pre-preg cloth. By adding it to the resin, far less resin is needed to hold everything together, and as it is the resin that makes up most of the weight, the blank is lighter and thus recovers quicker.


I was thinking about the possibilities with this exotic material, which is still it's early stages of development. If the material could be extruded it would open up  a huge range of applications. I did not realise that sheet form was already available on the open market.

AMF Head were the first to use graphene in sports equipment. In late 2014 they brought out a range of graphene reinforced skis. They were circa $400. In 2015 they revamped their entire racquet range, starting at around $30.  I believe they now have graphene shafted golf clubs.

G-Rods in the US were the first to manufacture rods with graphene.  They use several layers of graphene around mixed layers of carbon.  https://g-rods.com/pages/the-technology

I have has a cast of the Century Composites Stealth Graphene carp rods. Very light and responsive and although not over a measured casting field, I know I was putting leads a fair bit further than I have with other Century casting tools. They have produced 200m casts for others. The rod is circa £500, the blanks are £315 retail.

You can get Graphene blanks from a UK based fly rod maker (who uses a factory in the far east for blanks) for £50!!

In 2015 Spania revealed a car with a graphene reinforced chassis, but as it was on a supercar, it will be out of my price range :)


A last couple of thoughts.

The cost of Graphene per gram has reduced from $1000 to around $100 (Deloitte figures) Remembering that graphene is 1 molecule thick, 1 gram of the stuff is a HUGE amount, approximately (from a manufactures website) 736.6 square meters!  :shock :shock :shock :shock

Graphene is not a Nobel Prize Winning Material! The 2010 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to Andre Geirm and Konstantin Novoselov  "for groundbreaking experiments regarding the two-dimensional material graphene" People win prizes, not materials ;)
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Terry Coging

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 09:10:18 AM »
Thank you Rob - much better understanding of the materials' use in rod building.  So, Graphene , being so thin, probably only makes up a percent or less of the rods weight? In real terms a fairly normal graphite/resin blank with graphene in the wraps? No doubt there would have been a lot of technical problems to overcome and development will continue, just like the early days of carbon (graphite).  Maybe the military  Labs are further on with applications as usual - invisible trip wires - SAS spidermen - Bailey bridges carried in a rucksack  :z8    ....slow down Terry  :wink

Rob Brownfield

Re: Graphene - the future?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 12:23:17 PM »
I had a huge detailed reply, but I lost it!!!

So, in brief, in answer to your questions:

"So, Graphene , being so thin, probably only makes up a percent or less of the rods weight? "
The document I have says graphene makes up 10% of the weight of the resin. Not a huge saving. However, because the blank can now have thinner walls and a smaller diameter, it has less material for the same performance, and thus lighter.

"In real terms a fairly normal graphite/resin blank with graphene in the wraps?"
Here is a quote from the document: "A fishing rod comprises a hollow tubular rod blank having a plurality of prepreg layers, where each prepreg layer includes a graphene-resin mixture comprising a resin and a graphene preparation evenly disposed throughout the resin. The rod blank further includes a fiber cloth impregnated with the graphene-resin mixture. The plurality of prepreg layers are applied and pressed together in alternate layers of graphene-resin mixture and fiber cloth to form the rod blank."


Basically the resin is evenly distributed between the fibres and produces a structure that is resistant to crushing and that is stiff. This is why the walls can be thinner for the same strength. This is also why auto-claving is so important in any rod using some form of "filler". If you want to know more about this, google 3M Power Lux. This is a silica based system pretty much identical to what's described above. Loop use it for their Cross rods, loomis for their NRX, Hardy call it Sintrax..it uses silica nano particles as a packer whilst graphene reinforced rods use either graphene nano particles or flakes.

As for the military, yes, its being trialled. From armour and exoskeletons to communication devices and electronics due to its incredible electrical conducting abilities.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

 




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