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Dave Felce

very bad news from Spain
« on: June 21, 2017, 08:49:26 AM »
yesterday the Spanish government voted NOT to amend the recent legislation listing carp (& other species) as invasive aliens

here's what the AEC  (Asociacion Espanola de la Carpa Cyprinus Carpio) had to say:

Spanish politicians say no to the amendment of law 42/07

Today, 20 June, a new opportunity to amend law 42/07 has been missed and therefore alleviate the fateful sentence of invasive alien species which was issued by Chamber II of the supreme court.
Our politicians have forgotten about us, fishermen, hunters and people in rural areas and have voted against the amendment of the natural heritage and biodiversity act.
Once again, they have betrayed us, and their own voters, who cannot understand as politicians the time to solve problems, believe them.
They have said no, to employment, to the sustainable development of the rural world in line with fishing, hunting and creating wealth in these most disadvantaged areas.
Some politicians have not tempered the pulse to vote against what they promised in their regions.
Why, parties like the psoe and we can, are the people against our collective and therefore the growth and advancement of the peoples they govern?
Why in their villages and their regional assemblies do they say a few things and vote the opposite in the Congress of members?
We're tired, jaded our political class. They have us at the limit of our endurance. But we're not gonna stand idly by.

From ACS, we are going to start a new form of fight against this injustice. That we'll be reporting to you.

Live tents!!!

the Spanish call carp "tents", btw





If people don't occasionally walk away from you shaking their heads, you're probably doing something wrong - John Gierach

Mike Barrio

Re: very bad news from Spain
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2017, 10:52:12 AM »
It is a very tricky subject Dave :z8
I'm sure most folk would agree that it is irresponsible to introduce non native species to a new location, but at the same time they would not like to lose species that were 'moved' many years ago ...... where would New Zealand fishing be without the introduced Brown and Rainbow trout that the settlers took along with them for example.
Cheers
Mike
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Dave Felce

Re: very bad news from Spain
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2017, 11:57:25 AM »
i think it's crazy how little attention has been paid to this issue over here. were we to implement this legislation it would be the end of not only the stocked carp fisheries, but also rainbow trout....

the small-minded approach is "( No politics on the forum please ) will fix it". well, maybe not. we will have to make some concessions during whatever horse-trading takes place. invasive alien species legislation might well be one of those concessions. it'd be a pretty cheap concession as i would guess hardly anyone travels to the UK to fish for stocked carp or trout?  wild speculation i know; but stranger things have happened....
If people don't occasionally walk away from you shaking their heads, you're probably doing something wrong - John Gierach

Mike Barrio

Re: very bad news from Spain
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2017, 12:25:10 PM »
Must confess that I'm not following the situation in Spain closely Dave, but I think the Spanish government is possibly trying to achieve what we already have in place here ..... a situation where non native fish can be stocked under licence in an enclosed, managed fishery, but not moved / stocked anywhere else.
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Rob Brownfield

Re: very bad news from Spain
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 12:41:35 PM »
Spain has a huge tourist trade among anglers heading across to fish for giant Wels catfish, especially in NE Spain, around the Ebro. They also have a large following for the big carp .

In addition, large numbers of European (and increasingly UK) anglers head there for the Largemouth Bass, Zander, Perch and Pike. Spain is tipped to produce a new world record Perch and Zander and the guys are flocking to be the one.

Some species have been there for hundreds of years, such as Carp (1400's) whilst others were later introductions such as Wels in the 70's (Released by a German biologist) and Perch in the 90's.

The shear futility of trying to remove established species should be enough to stop the government in its tracks. Its going to cost millions for very little gain.

Yes, crack down on future introductions/fish movement, but be realistic about what is there, especially when it is bringing money into communities that need it.

As Mike says, imagine if the New Zealand government turned around and exterminated all Brown Trout, or the UK turned around and insisted on removing all Rainbow Trout and Carp.

Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Dave Felce

Re: very bad news from Spain
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2017, 12:56:01 PM »
i hope you're right Mike, but i seem to recall that the environmental lobby were pushing hard for it to go further. it'd got as far as upsetting aquarists & pondkeepers as it would, in its proposed draft,  mean that ornamental varieties were included as well...

it' s certainly interesting &  worth keeping an eye on, especially if you have any intention of fishing in Spain. regulations could shift very rapidly

there is a potential (somewhat cynical) upside to this... fishing for carp in  Spain might just become a whole lot easier for a few years! :shock

and yes, Rob; just read your post. that is the nub of the issue and why there have been massive protests by the Spanish fishing & tourist communities. all to no avail, it would appear...  :cry

as for futility, the Australian government has not only introduced compulsory kill legislation in some territories, but is looking at introducing  a carp specific herpes virus to achieve their objectives and i understand this option has already been discussed in Spain...
If people don't occasionally walk away from you shaking their heads, you're probably doing something wrong - John Gierach

Rob Brownfield

Re: very bad news from Spain
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 15:28:06 PM »
as for futility, the Australian government has not only introduced compulsory kill legislation in some territories, but is looking at introducing  a carp specific herpes virus to achieve their objectives and i understand this option has already been discussed in Spain...

I have been following the "Carp" issue in Australia for a while as I have a good friend who has just moved from Melbourne, where he was catching some beautiful carp, to Sydney, where he is struggling to get past huge eels to find a carp or three.  He is fishing a city lake that I fished way back in the 80's and its great to follow his exploits online.

I spoke to him about the issues of "eradication" over there and he cannot understand it. He is fishing some of the clearest, yet weediest lakes I have ever seen, yet is being told the carp have to go because they muddy water ways and root up all the vegetation.  He has been told that the eradication programme wont affect him in Sydney, but this virus is very easy to transfer on wet nets. Its a time bomb really, and I believe, completely irresponsible. The ornamental fish trade and keepers of Koi are in danger of losing everything.

It is strange that the only place carp apparently do "destruction" is Australia, New Zealand and some parts of America. Meanwhile, across the globe, and especially in Europe, we have never seen evidence of this.

The US have done similar eradications and ended up with dead waterways thanks to rotting fish stinking the place out. Even "natural" fish were wiped out because of what was effectively mass pollution. Now, after years of calling Carp trash fish, there is a sudden and fast growing band of carp fly fishers and waters that were once branded as "unfishable" have suddenly become carp meccas, with 20-30lb being sight fished in clear, shallow water.

There was a company in the UK that were trying to ship big Australian carp to the UK because the KHV virus was not in Oz, and therefore stock health could be guaranteed. I am not sure whatever happened to the idea.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

 




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