[Dave Medlyn]

Hi folks. I have a line weight question about a rod that I bought the other day. The rod is a sharps 12' double hand split cane rod called The Belmont.  Does anyone have any ideas about line weights for spey casting with this rod.  The serial number is on the rod but, I suspect incomplete #202
Thanks in advance for any help
Cheers Dave

[Rob Brownfield]

Hi folks. I have a line weight question about a rod that I bought the other day. The rod is a sharps 12' double hand split cane rod called The Belmont.  Does anyone have any ideas about line weights for spey casting with this rod.  The serial number is on the rod but, I suspect incomplete #202
Thanks in advance for any help
Cheers Dave

I suspect you are correct about the number being incomplete unless it is pre 1958...have a look at the numbering system here...
http://www.sharpes.net/ekmps/shops/sharpes/resources/Other/sharpe-s-rod-numbering-system.pdf

Back to the rod, I had a 12 foot Belmont and if I remember, its an 8-9 rod. Remember though, that is 8-9 for a double taper or spey line, not a modern salmon line . I doubt it would work too well with a Skagit or Scandi shooting head

I believe the rod was named after the road where sharpes had a shop and workshop, Belmont Street, from 1920-1971. The factory was in John Street, from 1954 to 1971. A smaller factory was also located in seaforth rod (nets mainly, hence the Seaforth).

I still use a Sharpes "The Carp" for my carp fishing, worth silly money to a collector, but why have it sitting on a wall when it can bring so much pleasure   And here is me using it to cacth carp on a wee Scottish loch

[Mike Thornton]

The line that most people used on this rod was a  Number 4 Kingfisher double taper silk line.  This would be equate to roughly a n 8/9 line in today's money.  One thing to be aware of is using a line that is too heavy, since this causes splitting between the upper and lower part of the ferrules.    Sharpes introduced so called " reinforced " ferrules on their rods , but even then splitting sometimes occurred.   It was no problem then, since obtaining replacements simple meant a trip to Aberdeen on the motorbike.  Changed days now!

[Dave Medlyn]

Hi guys,
Thanks for your replies. I paid €40 for the rod in a tackle shop about 20 miles from my house. I also got a Hardy Sunbeam 9/10 and a Hardy Marquis #7, both for €40 each. The reels are mint!!  #bargain!!
What line from the barrio range would suit the Belmont?
I'm going to use for grilse on a small river so I need a compact head to keep the line short-ish.
Thanks
Dave

[Dave Medlyn]

I'm thinking about the SLX line in an #8. Has anyone any thoughts in this choice??

[Rob Brownfield]

I'm thinking about the SLX line in an #8. Has anyone any thoughts in this choice??

Just my thoughts, and I am sure someone will come along with more knowledge, but two things, the SLX is rated for single handed rods, so I don't think it will be heavy enough for a double hander and secondly, the SLX is more of a integrated shooting head/advanced WF which I would think works better on a faster action rod.

The Belmont is a slooooow all through action rod that I think would work better with a proper old school spey line.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Dave,

Sorry if I seem a bit backward about giving suggestions, it is just that this type of rod really needs a while on the water with a good selection of lines to try. I am very much aware that any advice that I give you could be totally wrong and I wouldn't like you to spend money on a line that turns out not to work for you

I believe the old Kingfisher 4 works out at approx 240 grains, about a #9 line in today's single handed casting standards.

 I would suggest trying to beg, steal or borrow a DT8, DT9 and DT10 from friends to try on the rod, or perhaps buying some cheap 'Mill End' lines in these weights to play with and get a feel for what works best for you.

Best wishes
Mike

[Dave Medlyn]

Right. Ok.  I suppose it's my own fault for loving these old rods that the old line weight question is never far away!!
I have an old hardy the croquet 13' double hander. Ended up on the advise of a cane rod builder to get a 40g snowbee scandi spey line, it works a treat. My casting is not the best but it was an instant improvement fro the trad spey line that I was using before. That was a 9/10 f spey master from scierra. I still have that kicking around. I'll give it a lash and get back with my findings.
Cheers
Dave

[Mike Barrio]

Would be interesting to hear how the 40g Snowbee feels on this rod Dave, might help towards finding an answer.

Purely a guess,  but I reckon we are probably looking at a Scandi type Spey line in the region of 30 to 35 grams

Cheers
Mike

[Rob Brownfield]

Purely a guess,  but I reckon we are probably looking at a Scandi type Spey line in the region of 30 to 35 grams

That's very interesting as it seems to go against the whole Scandi concept of faster actioned rods with shorter, snappier casting strokes.

However, just did some searching and a fair few seem to be using Scandi and even Skagits with 13/14 foot Scotties. However, more seem to be using the Airflo Delta Spey 8/9.

Why is it so complicated?

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Rob,

Dave said:

I have an old hardy the croquet 13' double hander. Ended up on the advise of a cane rod builder to get a 40g snowbee scandi spey line, it works a treat

I'm therefore thinking this type of line suits him?

[Dave Medlyn]

Hi folks
Went out this evening with my Scottie and the 9/10 spey. I've chopped the first 35' of the line off and have it loop to loop with the arse end of an old #4 wff line as a home made shooting head.
It was a bit better than the #7 line that I used the other day.  Struggled with line stick and fly turnover , but that could be,in part, my casting.
I'll try the 40g next time I go out.

[Hamish Young]

Why is it so complicated?

Not so sure it is Rob, the head lengths on both Scandi and Skagit aren't exactly long and the Airflo... well I guess it depends on which Delta Spey you get

Whilst I would not use a split cane double hander (due a traumatic experience some years ago on the River Lochy) I have experimented extensively with modern double handed lines (from Skagit to Spey) and found the softer fibreglass and early carbon rods enjoyable in an old school kind of way when casting those lines; indeed I have a 15' rod (possibly a Daiwa blank) that absolutely flies with a Skagit - and I mean it goes like a bat out of hell on that rod

I guess this means I really do not subscribe to the idea that a rod must 'do this' or is 'meant for that' when really it's a fishing tool and if the weights all match up and it suits the caster - who gives a toss

For Dave - if you're struggling with turnover then chuck a 10' polyleader on the front and see if that helps. Why take 35' off the front of the line by the way..... what's the head length and weight ended up ???

H

[Dave Medlyn]

Don't ask! I had a bit if a mind melt and thought I could make a shooting head. I was messing around with a 10' fibreglass rod by adding an extended fighting but to the arse if it, a kinda home made skagit rod of sorts.  It ended up working ok withe the chopped line and the old 3.5 times rod length. The rod is a #7.
Now I have the Scottie and I with I never chopped it up. You live and learn I suppose!! I have not had the chance to get out with the 40g line yet. How will I know if that line is too heavy? If that's a stupid question, don't mock me for it!!!!!
Cheers
Dave

[Rob Brownfield]

I guess this means I really do not subscribe to the idea that a rod must 'do this' or is 'meant for that' when really it's a fishing tool and if the weights all match up and it suits the caster - who gives a toss

I am normally of the "just because it says "xyz" on the blank it does not mean it can only be used for "xyz" I just envisaged a very slow actioned cane rod struggling with a shooting head.

Personally, I do not subscribe to the "it must be a fast action to cast a long way", believing that a blank has to be loaded to deliver Many folk struggle to load some modern rods.