[Mike Barrio]

When 4X4s were 4X4s

[Mike Barrio]

So .....  what about now

Is the Defender very much a desirable, practical & iconic vehicle to own, or is it just a 'Meccano Set' that will break down a lot and cost you loads to run?

[James Craig]

I'd love a 90, especially with one of the newer Transit engines. I work in the countryside all over Aberdeenshire, and generally spend all of my time there so currently my hatch-back is taking a beating.

Wouldn't mind hearing from those with experience!

[Rob Brownfield]

I'd love a 90, especially with one of the newer Transit engines. I work in the countryside all over Aberdeenshire, and generally spend all of my time there so currently my hatch-back is taking a beating.

Wouldn't mind hearing from those with experience!

I have had 3 over the last 15 years, and all have been as good as gold. 2 x 90's with 300TDi engines (by far the best engine for simplicity and reliability) and one 110 V8 which is being "refreshed" just now as she has reached 30 and 150k on the clock so she deserves some pampering.

Values are starting to creep up again on the 200 and 300TDi ones as these are the best for the offroaders out there.

Do not be fooled by people saying "but they break down all the time". It is important to remember most Defenders have already had a working life before you buy them. Comparing a working vehicle that has more than likely been through the wars to a Jap 4x4 that's never seen anything more than a gravel drive is counter productive. I don't know a single person driving a 30 year old Jap/German 4x4, I know plenty driving 30 year old defenders But with age comes repairs.

My last 90 (96 plate) came from Dunecht Estate. To say she was battered about is an understatement. in 4 years she cost me a new alternator (well, second hand for £50), a set of paper gaskets for the hubs and a clutch master cylinder (£40) that took 30 minutes to fit. See the pictures below for a typical weekends fun!

My first 90 I only had for a few months as I bought it as a winter vehicle, and sold her in spring...only to regret it straight away.

My V8 110, despite starting life as a KND vehicle in Oz, and being driven back, via South Africa, as a publicity stunt for Land Rover, will have another 30 years in her yet. Total cost to keep her on the road in 15 years of owning her...£57 for a vacuum diff actuator. (Naturally she has been serviced as well, but I do that myself).

Would I buy another...I am looking, but it would be a TD5 or 300TDi engine one.

The newer Transit engined ones are a bit more comfy, have a proper dashboard and even a heater that works. The engines are solid and well proven but perhaps not as good at serious off roading. Cost however, is scary for a secondhand vehicle. Good thing though, most have only been used by yummy mummys so are in very good condition.

[Mike Barrio]

What's the difference between the 90 and 110 driving wise Rob?

When I worked at Suzuki I used to drive Vitaras, the SWB ones wandered and wallowed a fair bit on the road and didn't corner very well, but the LWB ones felt much more stable and natural to drive.

Cheers
Mike

[Rob Brownfield]

So .....  what about now

Is the Defender very much a desirable, practical & iconic vehicle to own, or is it just a 'Meccano Set' that will break down a lot and cost you loads to run?

Take a 30 year old 90, it will cost you the best part of £5k for one in good nick. 5 years ago they were going for £2k.

A 2015 plate van back will cost £20-22k!!! A CSW is £30k., a ten year old one, £15k.

Prices are sky rocketing on 200 and 300 TDis, and the TD5 version is not far behind.

An investment for the future.

As for reliability...we are talking about 20-30 year old vehicles that are abused off road by farmers and "enthusiasts".  You don't get that many engine issues, you do get broken springs, mashed propshafts, body and chassis damage, worn hub bearings (that's what happens when you do a lot of wading) and so on. Never had an engine issue in 3 Defenders and an older Discovery which between them must have covered a good 200k on road and hill.

There's not that many "normal" 30 year old vehicles still in everyday use, there are even fewer non British 30 year old 4x4's. 

[Rob Brownfield]

What's the difference between the 90 and 110 driving wise Rob?

When I worked at Suzuki I used to drive Vitaras, the SWB ones wandered and wallowed a fair bit on the road and didn't corner very well, but the LWB ones felt much more stable and natural to drive.

Cheers
Mike

90's are a bit prone to finding there own path!! However, this is mainly because people whack on big Mud Terrain tyres and higher suspension. On normal skinny tyres and springs they are ok. Add an after market steering damper and they calm down a lot. The standard Landrover damper was designed for use in farms and fields so its not as good at soaking up high speed bumps and undulations.

The 110 is solid (but not in wind like today!!)

As for cornering, it is surprising how fast they will take a corner...but when they let go, they just go, no warning!! But again, they are not built for that. If you want that sort of thing, send them to Alive Tuning for a lowered suspension kit and tweak to the turbo ..or buy a Bowler Tomcat

[James Craig]

My last 90 (96 plate) came from Dunecht Estate. To say she was battered about is an understatement. in 4 years she cost me a new alternator (well, second hand for £50), a set of paper gaskets for the hubs and a clutch master cylinder (£40) that took 30 minutes to fit. See the pictures below for a typical weekends fun!

Thanks for the insight Rob 

I do a wealth of miles about the countryside and so I might a appreciate the comfort of a newer generation.

Re second-hand prices - I pass Dunecht 4x4 every morning and am regularly flabbergasted by a) the price of some of the trucks and b) the rate of turnover! Maybe there are deals to be done?

James

[Derek Roxborough]

I drove a mk2. for the GPo in the 60's and it was a pig, cold in the winter and wet when it rained,it put me off Landy's for life,my pal in the states has an early land cruiser with a cast iron straight 6 motor and it's on it's 3rd time round the clock, looks a bit rough but hes from Alaska and he really needs it , I would only have a 4x4 if it was a tool , I'll stick to my fiesta for now, I remember reading a 4x4 magazine a few years back and the Fiat Panda got the best write up ,it's horses for courses  easgach 1

[Mike Barrio]

Last one ......................

[Rob Brownfield]

I drove a mk2. for the GPo in the 60's and it was a pig, cold in the winter and wet when it rained,it put me off Landy's for life,my pal in the states has an early land cruiser with a cast iron straight 6 motor and it's on it's 3rd time round the clock, looks a bit rough but hes from Alaska and he really needs it , I would only have a 4x4 if it was a tool , I'll stick to my fiesta for now, I remember reading a 4x4 magazine a few years back and the Fiat Panda got the best write up ,it's horses for courses  easgach 1

All depends what you want it for, I doubt a Panda would pull a horse box with horse out of a field or carry 4 bails of hay up a hill side Having commuted 25 miles each way through a couple of winters in an original Panda 4x4, it is doubtful you could fit a fully grown adult in one However, that wee thing got through snow and ice when others were stranded. So glad we never had an accident in it!! The Subaru Justy was in the same mould, but tougher.

I have a soft spot for Landcruisers (the originals). Nice and basic too. We had one out in Brunei (and a Subaru 4x4). It went anywhere and everywhere but was pig ugly!! Just don't see them here at all.

[Eddie Sinclair]

Rob,

30 year old Landys,

here is mine and it is now 32 years young and in all the time that I have had it I have replaced the alternator twice and one indicator lens that had faded with age and that has been it so far.

Eddie.

[Rob Brownfield]

Here it is the right way up. I know Landys are great but even they cant drive upside down.

Eddie. 

Same age as my red 110 in the photo. Mines a V8, 250k on the clock and mechanically sound. Air con packed in 10 years back, but after removing the drive belt, I found I could get an extra 2-3mpg

[Derek Roxborough]

James may was on the tele last night doing  a 4X4 thing and finished up with the Panda Sisley it's the French grape growers choice, If I wanted to carry hay or pull horse boxes, I certainly wouldn't need a panda, I had a Renault 4 that would go any where, they had them in 4x4 in france, I had a guy follow me in a landrover over some boggy ground and we ended up spending an hour digging him out, where the Renault being so light just  sailed over, I could get 6 boxes of lobsters in the back of the Renault, easgach 1

[Euan Innes]

I could get 6 boxes of lobsters in the back of the Renault

And that is what most people need 4x4s for, small loads and good drive in crap weather. My Alfa goes most places that fishing requires it to, got through some deep water recently and does over 50mpg. The thought of driving 45 miles each way every day to work in a Landy fills me with dread!
I have been up hills in Landys that would scare walkers and been through water that would float a boat and they are superb for doing just that. But as for driving from my house up North to the fishing, no ta.
I was co-owner of a Lada Niva Cossack for a wee while and that was great fun, on and off road. The prices of most 4x4s also scares me rigid. 
I did catch myself looking at 4x4 Pandas today on Autotrader.....