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Iain Cameron

nail knotting
« on: November 12, 2015, 08:22:20 AM »
Just ever so slightly missing going fishing... so I bought one of those cheap nail knot tools - kind of elongated wedge shaped one with the open groove.


It's very good, simple to use. Been practising with old fly line and 15 & 20lb mono taking the role of what would be a permanently attached tapered leader. A winter pursuit of the perfect nail knot... getting the coils of mono to tighten up just right is an art


So, how many turns of mono would folk recommend? 5 seems too few, 6 or 7 about right...


i






Rob Brownfield

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2015, 09:04:40 AM »
More on light line, less on heavier :)

6 seems to be the average for 12-15lb mono.

The thicker the mono the harder it is to sinch the knot down tight and therefore fewer turns are better. I think I am down to 3 turns on my 10 weight Pike lines and 30lb mono.


Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Marc Fauvet

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2015, 10:06:56 AM »
3
any less doesn't hold well.
more is completely superfluous.
do pull and yank tests  :wink

Iain Cameron

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2015, 13:19:37 PM »
i shall go home and do some yanking tonight!

Marc Fauvet

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2015, 16:15:25 PM »
just be sure to not mix up your consonants !  :z4 :z4 :z4

Iain Cameron

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2015, 10:16:37 AM »


Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 12 November 2015, 16:15:25
just be sure to not mix up your consonants !  :z4 :z4 :z4

I yon't. Found 3 was a little too easy to pull apart. Using an old mallard DT 3 or 4 stuffed in a box, so it is a thin ish fly line. I'll conduct further tests... yes, I am bored without fishing to amuse me



Will Shaw

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 10:24:08 AM »
It really depends on the diam. of the leader butt.

15lb - 20lb is quite thin for a leader butt. I'm guessing most factory-made tapered leaders for trout have a butt of at least 30lb, maybe more.

With factory-made tapered leaders 3 turns is plenty. Never had one go - even under extreme pressure.

With 15lb mono I can see that you're going to need more turns - I'm guessing 5 or 6? Be aware though that the more turns you have the harder it is to get a nicely seated knot.

Me? I'd go for a thicker leader butt.

Hope this helps.

Will

Hamish Young

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 10:40:56 AM »
I put in 5 turns when I nail knot. I like 5, it's like 4 only one more but also one less than six - which is nice.

H :wink
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ;)

Marc Fauvet

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 18:35:08 PM »
Iain, i agree with Will. 15-20lb seems daft erm... way too thin as a leader butt diameter to get any kind of controlled turnover.
what are you planning to use this for ?

thought you might find some use from this video from Tie Fast  :z16

Iain Cameron

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2015, 08:43:26 AM »
thanks Will, Marc


I was just using 15 & 20lb mono to practice with before attacking my actual fishing lines and leaders. Yup, too thin for the task.

I use the Leeda selecta leaders; not sure of actual butt diameter, but they claim to be 50% bigger then everyone else's butt, dontcha know!

Does anyone treat the finished nail knot with any glue type product, either to add strength or just to make the whole knot smooth?
i,

had a couple of failures with minicon connectors this year, so time for a change.  Both times it was  my fly lines being used by someone else, oddly. not had one fail while I was playing fish myself

Sandy Nelson

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2015, 11:28:56 AM »
Iain

I think of you are using large butt leaders i'd go back to this

http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4567.msg47802#msg47802

I'm still doing exactly the same and never had a failure yet :z16

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Euan Innes

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2015, 17:29:00 PM »
What Sandy said!
Best line to leader connection, EVAH!
Seriously though, very good turn over, and with a 2mm ring on the end tippet replacement is easy. For those of you who don't think rings are up to the task, salmon don't seem to mind so trout really don't give a sh@t.

 :z1
Living with deep, full breaths is the way of the trout. Fish, it seems, are the ultimate teachers in breathing.
RC Cone

Will Shaw

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2015, 10:06:09 AM »
thanks Will, Marc


I was just using 15 & 20lb mono to practice with before attacking my actual fishing lines and leaders. Yup, too thin for the task.

I use the Leeda selecta leaders; not sure of actual butt diameter, but they claim to be 50% bigger then everyone else's butt, dontcha know!

Does anyone treat the finished nail knot with any glue type product, either to add strength or just to make the whole knot smooth?
i,

had a couple of failures with minicon connectors this year, so time for a change.  Both times it was  my fly lines being used by someone else, oddly. not had one fail while I was playing fish myself

Hey Iain

Interested to know the butt diam. of the Leeda ones. The one's I've seen always look really thin so I use either Rio or Orvis.

W.

Marc Fauvet

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2015, 12:45:07 PM »
they don't seem give out butt section diameters Will, just the tips.



i just checked one i have in my spare kit- 15' 1x 7lb/3.1kg and the butt section's indeed thinner than typical Orvis, SA and Rio. (i don't have a micrometer but its very easy to see)
personally, i find the thinner diameter more appropriate for most trout-type fly lines whereas, the 'norm' is almost always outrageously too big/out of proportion.

Hanak http://www.hanak.eu/en/brand-hanak-competition/leaders/tapered-leaders seems to have better proportions.  :z16

Will Shaw

Re: nail knotting
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2015, 19:34:41 PM »
I've always liked a thick butt!

W.

 




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