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Euan Innes

Furled leaders and long tippets
« on: January 14, 2015, 20:38:04 PM »
The problem with having a 1 hour commute each way is that my mind turns to fishing ideas that might not make sense at the time but linger on in the recesses of my mind and make me question how I go about catching trout. So here we go!
Those of you that use furled leaders can maybe help me out. Do any of you use them on stillwaters with a long tippet and two flies? By long I mean 10 feet of nylon, one dropper 4 feet from the end, attached to a 5 foot furled leader. I am just curious at the moment and I have 4 long haul flights coming up to ponder further. On the subject of furled things, which ones do you prefer and why? And for those who hate them, why so?
I look forward to the replies, however they might be.  :z4
 :z1
Living with deep, full breaths is the way of the trout. Fish, it seems, are the ultimate teachers in breathing.
RC Cone

Hamish Young

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 09:40:35 AM »
I used furled leaders a fair bit ten years ago but gave up on them preferring to use a tapered nylon leader instead.

There were a number of reasons for this but in the main (then) tapered mono leaders were considerably cheaper, easier to come by and generally a bit more 'industrial' than a furled leader...... but that doesn't mean they're all good. I have found shorter 'big butt' tapered leaders to have coiling /self retrieval properties akin to some Airflo fly lines. So the tapered mono leader isn't all great, get a kink in it and you're buggered. Get one that's been coiled on a spool over the winter :? If it doesn't 'come good' in some warm water chuck it in the bin.
Haven't checked it properly and making 'that' cast to 'that' trout on the river :? Watch in amazement as your tapered leader gives you an undesired 90 degree angle change  :z10

No, I don't use furled leaders (get a knot in one and it's had it) but they have some big pros to consider.  If you make the cast right then furled leaders tend to turn over consistently and nicely every time - they don't have the memory of a tapered mono leader either. Make them yourself and you can create a specific taper that suits you..... and I see that as their biggest strength.

Would I go back :? Well no, personally I wouldn't. Whilst there are pros to them I consider furled leaders to be of limited value in 99% of the loch fishing I do. If I had the time to make up my own furled leaders to my own specifications :? That is a more interesting question. Probably.

H :cool:
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ;)

Marc Fauvet

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 10:05:06 AM »
hi,
without going into pros and cans of furled leaders (because Hamish summed it up quite well  :z16 ) i'll just add that most FL aren't designed for such long lengths of single-diameter tippet (10').
in this situation what generally happens is energy transfer from the fly line to FL taper to tippet doesn't extend to the point fly and turnover isn't very good.
however, continuing the taper on the tippet part will do this, for ex. starting the 'butt' part of the 'tippet' at say,  maybe  5' of 4x and then 1 or 2 feet of 5x and then finishing off at the point with 6x should do the trick nicely. (those lengths and diameters are just examples, adjust to your needs)
the same principle applies to other plastic or braided tips/leaders.
i hope this makes sense and helps,
marc

Euan Innes

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 13:04:15 PM »
Perfect replies from both of you so thanks for that. Suspicions confirmed and all that.
I have some other ideas to improve turnover that I need to think about and those will probably have nylon involved.
As I use my 9'#4 for most of my fishing these day I need to carry a selection of leaders to suit the conditions so a furled one for the river might happen anyway. But as I suspected, they are not the thing for lochs.

 :z1
Living with deep, full breaths is the way of the trout. Fish, it seems, are the ultimate teachers in breathing.
RC Cone

Derek Roxborough

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 20:04:35 PM »
Gave up on furled leaders , I made some successfully after watching a you tube demonstration, made some out of polypropylene, which I found were too limp, and some out of some 1lb BS mono that worked fairly well , but it was too complicated, I  now use  10lb mono to my cast and taper the cast to a 4lb point so I have 3ft of 10lb, to 2ft -6in of 8lb, to 3ft of 6lb to 3ft of 4lb, this is for a 3 dropper cast,
it works for me, I don't use braided loops sticking to the old figure "8" knot, for a quick change of casts, but then I,m a bit of a luddite,
I generally only use intermediate lines , on my 5wt rod, I  bought the blanks from here ,  easgach 1

Iain Cameron

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 11:17:09 AM »
hi euan

Tried various furled leaders. 2 things I didn't like:
- water spray when lifting off the surface fishing dries.
- stick a fly up a tree, pull hard, get fly back (or not) and FL gets all fankled and furled.

I'm sticking with solid, reliable, robust (& cheap) mono tapered leedas.

Euan Innes

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 12:13:37 PM »
Thanks Iain and Easgach 1.
I have pretty much gone off the idea now that suspicions have been confirmed.  :z4

Nylon all the way!  :z16
(with the odd polyleader thrown in for good measure)

 :z1
Living with deep, full breaths is the way of the trout. Fish, it seems, are the ultimate teachers in breathing.
RC Cone

Neil Blogg

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 17:38:21 PM »
I personally like furled leaders, but for specific situations. I fish mainly small rivers and streams, short rods, dry flies, short to medium range casts, tricky overhangs and canopy to contend with, and with a 3 or 4 foot furled leader, and 3 to 5 foot of tippet, I am pretty pleased with the results I get.

I have moved onto silk lines for my light weight work over the last two years (3 wt & 4 wt), and pair that up with a furled leader, and casting is a dream.

I have no idea how they would perform on heavier lines/rod set-up's, maybe not suited at all. I have used them with Barrio GT90's in 4 wt, and personally considered that set up was also ok, may have been better though with a DT rather than a WF.

Derek Roxborough

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 22:40:41 PM »
I liked The furled leaders when I first made them up,I still have a couple , I didn't like the polypropelene ones I found the fine Mono ones were easier to turn over then I thought it was just another complication and I went to the set up I had described, much easier for me , but then as I said I am  a luddite,  :z4 easgach 1

Hamish Young

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 06:11:08 AM »
..... may have been better though with a DT rather than a WF.

As a matter of interest, why do you feel a DT would be better than a WF to have a furled leader attached :?
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ;)

Marc Fauvet

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 08:48:49 AM »
i think its because DTs can be turned over once one side is used, thus effectively doubling the life of the fly line but probably not that of the furled leader ?
(unless its a really-really resistant furled leader !)  :z16
anyhow, with DTs the best thing to do is to put furled leaders on both sides so's you don't have to fiddle around and loose time should you wear out one side of the line whilst fishing and have to turn it around.
cheers,
marc

Neil Blogg

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 08:55:39 AM »
As a matter of interest, why do you feel a DT would be better than a WF to have a furled leader attached :?

I use furled leaders made from thread, and in the main, with silk lines (Terrenzio natural silk), these lines are double taper, and the combination (for me) is excellent. I had tried the same furled leaders with a WF Barrio line, and although it worked very well, it would not turn over the fly at short range as well as the DT silk lines (and, I accept that there are different characteristics in these line). My suggestion was, that the DT may be better, and I will try this when the season gets going, my theory may be wrong!

Marc Fauvet

Re: Furled leaders and long tippets New
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 11:55:55 AM »
ok, i'll stop being silly...  :z4

"I had tried the same furled leaders with a WF Barrio line, and although it worked very well, it would not turn over the fly at short range as well as the DT silk lines (and, I accept that there are different characteristics in these line)"

it's exactly the "different characteristics in these line" that makes for the different resultant turn-overs you observed between the two line types.
what's an almost certainty is there wasn't mass continuity between the line tip and the leader butt. in other words, the leader butt didn't have enough mass to match the mass of the WF's tip.
its fair to assume that there was a 'hinge' or a 'slight folding-over' at the junction, no ?

so, this has nothing to do whether the line is a DT or a WF and the materials they're made of. this leader just worked out well for your silk line  :z16 and is a good reminder that leader construction selection can't be universal.

here's an interesting read on the WF-DT differences subject from the Papa of modern fly lines, Bruce Richards.
http://thelimpcobra.com/2013/02/28/double-tapered-vs-weight-forward-fly-lines-which-is-really-better/

cheers,
marc
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 18:12:55 PM by Marc Fauvet »

 




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