[Will Shaw]

Fascinating stuff Magnus. Got to say I'm still sceptical. Especially once I'd got to cast that strange recurve rod you had a few years ago. I picked that up thinking it would be a complete nightmare if I tried to cast it out of plane. It wasn't.

I don't think even Jerry Siem could spot the difference between the tracking of say an XP and a One by casting them. And for most of us disentangling an inherent slight tracking effect from the natural variability in hand, arm, and body movement will be impossible.

You have got me thinking though. I will be paying attention to tiny waves in the rod leg now! Damn, not another neurosis to cope with!

[Duncan Inglis]

I have built a number of rods on blanks made and supplied by David Norwich. His advice which I always followed was to test each section to find the spine and then align them, fit the rings along this line, this so the rod followed the preferred plane of bending. Having done this I've never experienced any sort of twisting of the rod or cast line. That said I tried a friends rod, a cheaper priced rod from a well known supplier, and it felt terrible to cast with any accuracy, when I checked the spine on each section, they all varied from the line that the rings were fitted to.
Not an expert in any way, just my experience in this.

[Magnus Angus]

Damn, not another neurosis to cope with!

My work here is done 

[Mike Barrio]

My work here is done 

    

[Rob Brownfield]

Rob
The pic of Danny testing that carp rod? Are you saying before load the rings on that rod line up? It really looks to me like the top is offset so the line can't rub the blank. As Will knows a fair few good fly casters set their rods the same way.

Those rings are aligned when not under load.

Not just carp rods either


And an extreme version:


The effect is exagerated in carp rods due to the guides sitting a good distance from the blank. Typically, the butt ring is 40 or more likely 50mm and the tip 12mm. This puts a lot of torsion on the blank as it come around. And thus, some of the custom builders are going back to smaller guides that are closer to the blank aka the Fuji Concept ringing system.

As I said, you can see this by rigging up a rod, turning the guides upper most and leaning into the blank until it locks.

[Magnus Angus]

Hi Rob

Interesting, those still look like spiral ringed rods to me. Got any online articles on this?

Magnus

PS My apologies - you are right - I've had is confirmed/explained by Harrisons.

[Rob Brownfield]

Hi Rob

Interesting, those still look like spiral ringed rods to me. Got any online articles on this?

Magnus

Firstly articles. I have not seen any as the rod manufacturers dont want you to know that the rings they put on screw up the action of the rod. There are mentions of guide induced torque in some US manufacturers websites (spinning rods) and Century USA and UK catalogues. There is a big "fashion" parade in carp fishing circles, with looks taking over from function. 5 rings on a 12 foot rod are not enough, large 40mm or 50mm rings do not do what they say and handle lengths hinder rather than serve..but fashion takes over.

As for the photos, these are factory built rods, nothing special, with straight guides. The one of Danny casting is an advert for centurys C2 rod http://www.centurycarp.co.uk/carp-rods/century-c2/ .  Worth noting the C2 is a top of the range rod (£500) and not a cheap floppy blank. It is wrung with Fuji high stand off K series, and this is the problem. The rings stand well clear of the blank, causing huge twisting forces during a cast. (see video in link to see how far away).

The photo on the beach is someone mackeral fishing. He is using a Daiwa Powermesh Carp rod as can be seen in this photo (handle is very distinct, as is the diameter of the blank)

The bottom photo is of Terry Edwards, well known distance angler. The rod is a Harrison, he is sponsored by them, more than likely a Torrix.

From an advert for a Kevin Nash NRXD carp rod, straight guides.


Another one, this time with a Century FS


There are loads out there..all factory rods.  Carp rods are just not spiral wrapped.