Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Rob Brownfield

Re: Rich Man's vice
« Reply #15 on: 17/03/2014 at 15:58 »
A £600 rod is a £600 rod, sorry rob it aint its about £50 of materials & labour & a shit load of profit.

But retail is retail...thats what I mean. You dont put a a rod that retails at £600 up for £2000. I have no doubt the vice is lovely, but retail has gone up 400%...ouch.



(Ok, some people do..lol)

Magnus Angus

Re: Rich Man's vice
« Reply #16 on: 18/03/2014 at 02:24 »
Rob you are missing the point. The LAW Vice has been out of production for several years. Lawrence retired - he stopped making vices quite happily and went fishing. Last time I saw him he was just back from Los Rochas. Meanwhile the value of the small number of vices he made had gone up. Important point that, he made a limited number of vices - I'd have one now but stupidly was unwilling to wait 18 months.

I'd take issue with describing the price Lawrence charged for his vices as retail. If he had worked as a manufacturer, setting a proper profit margin, selling his products to retail shops, based on the workshop costs and a realistic hourly rate for his time making each vice, the trade price would have been higher than the £400 to £460 he charged. That would have set a retail price maybe double the price Lawrence charged and no retail shop at that time would have dared try and sell a vice for £800. The reality is Lawrence did not make vices as a business, it was a hobby, he enjoyed the design challenge and the people (actually I think he got a bit bored making the same thing time after time.)

Thing is, since Lawrence retired a couple of LAW vices sold at auction over the past year or two and fetched £1400 and £1600 - I hear one sold privately for more. So £2000 per vice was the retail price needed to get Lawrence back in his workshop, making vices which are accruing in value - like rare old wine or books - like the copy of an old edition of Kelson selling for £350 at Coch Y Bonduhu - you really think that should be selling at the original cover price? And the proof is that within a week those few vices on offer were sold.

Oh and if you want a realistic rod comparison a £600 factory made rod is not the right one. A fine rod made by a top named builder in a small workshop is a realistic comparison, so check the retail on a Barder or a Sweetgrass as examples, both sell for more that £2000 and there is a waiting time for both.


Magnus

Rob Brownfield

Re: Rich Man's vice
« Reply #17 on: 18/03/2014 at 09:11 »
Magnus, I think you are reading way way too much into my original comment.

Meanwhile the value of the small number of vices he made had gone up. Important point that, he made a limited number of vices
Quote
Don't dispute that. If someone wants to pay a premium for "limited editions", then that's their business. Feel sorry for those that bought the original "limited edition" vice only to find out it was not as "limited" as they thought .  :z8

I'd take issue with describing the price Lawrence charged for his vices as retail.......selling his products to retail shops, ...........no retail shop at that time would have dared try and sell a vice for £800.
Quote
So it was a retail price? If he did not make money on that then that was perhaps not a great move?

So £2000 per vice was the retail price needed to get Lawrence back in his workshop
Quote
Which is why he has just come back from a nice fishing trip :) And good luck to him on that!  :z16

- like the copy of an old edition of Kelson selling for £350 at Coch Y Bonduhu - you really think that should be selling at the original cover price?
Quote
Nope, as that is a rare book that is original. If, however, I reprinted that book, would you expect to pay £350? I doubt it. Would you expect to pay less? Probably.

Oh and if you want a realistic rod comparison a £600 factory made rod is not the right one. A fine rod made by a top named builder in a small workshop is a realistic comparison, so check the retail on a Barder or a Sweetgrass as examples, both sell for more that £2000 and there is a waiting time for both.
Quote
It was not myself that used the £600 rod as a comparison, the rod came into the equation when it was mentioned that you would not complain about buying a £600 rod. I agree, it’s not the same thing. Knowing a couple of Barder owners, and having used a Barder barbell rod I can fully appreciate the quality and time and effort that goes into a quality product. Again, no issues what so ever on that.


My original comment, which was about the £2000 price tag for the vice was based on knowing the original retail price and also the price they go for. It was not questioning the quality of the vice, or indeed the “value” to an individual, because the value is only its value if someone is willing to pay the price. People were, so therefore the value is £2000 to certain individuals……but it’s still an “ouch” in anyone’s book as others have commented on. And that is all I was saying.

Hamish Young

Re: Rich Man's vice
« Reply #18 on: 18/03/2014 at 19:56 »
Rob you get my vote for the best number of multi-quotes I have ever seen on this forum or anywhere else.

As far as this one goes chaps I think we can all agree it's a fearsome amount of money for a vice but, when you want and can afford the very best, then why drive a Celica when you could drive a Lexus :?

H :cool:

Ben Dixon

Re: Rich Man's vice
« Reply #19 on: 18/03/2014 at 20:40 »
Interesting points raised here, would be nice to own one, great things but I'd rather have the £600 rod personally (despite it only being worth £50  ZX2).

Rob, for future reference, if you're going to argue with Magnum do yourself the favour and him the courtesy of using spell check if you want to be taken every vaguely seriously.  I'd love to know the stiffness of that Barbell rod  :z4

Off to happily tie some flies on my Weaver with loose wobbly rotary function.


Ben

Rob Brownfield

Re: Rich Man's vice
« Reply #20 on: 19/03/2014 at 07:50 »

Rob, for future reference, if you're going to argue with Magnum do yourself the favour and him the courtesy of using spell check if you want to be taken every vaguely seriously.  I'd love to know the stiffness of that Barbell rod  :z4

I did not realise one spelling mistake means that someones view is immediatly worthless. I will remember that one.

And ironically, it was a spell check on Microsoft Outlook that changed Barbel to Barbell!

And perhaps you could possibly spell his name correctly?

 




Barrio Fly Lines - designed in Scotland - Cast with confidence all over the world

Barrio Fly Lines

Designed in Scotland

Manufactured in the UK

Cast with confidence all over the world

www.flylineshop.com