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Ben_D

Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« on: January 28, 2014, 20:06:47 PM »
How long would it take you on average to put a rod together assuming you had a preformed handle (or built handle ready to glue), guide feet smoothed where required etc and all the other bits required sat in front of you?  I'm talking here about build time not the time it takes for whipping epoxy to dry, just the time to assemble.  Assume double leg snakes.

Also, how long would it take you to apply epoxy to a stripping guide whipping?

Cheers

Ben

Rob Brownfield

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 08:20:26 AM »
Well..with my form currently...18 months!

Its a strange question but if I sit down and have no distractions, I managed a PFFA #9 from components to built rod (minus epoxy) in 5 hours. That included a 3 wrap tipping to each ferrule and the two stripping guides.

Applying epoxy just to a stripping guide? 5 minutes including the mixing, but then a visit every 10 minutes in the first hour to check, and then a recote if required the next day. (depends if using Lite or regular or if the fist coat soaked in if not using CP).

Are your Chinese rod builders not building rods quick enough for you?? ;)
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Sandy Nelson

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 10:32:16 AM »
It is a strange kind of question Dude  :z7

As it happens i sat yesterday with an Epic Salsa blank, a roll of cinnamon pearsalls silk and a selection of fine wire double leg snake rings pre-ground (as i do them on receipt :wink) i also had a cork handle i had pre-bored and a nice reel seat that doesn't need anything other than fitting.

It took me 10mins to mark out the blank, an hour to whip on all the double leg rings and another 20mins to assemble the handle, grip/seat took an hour to go hard enough to handle, then i finished the butt section with the butt ring, winding check and text, this took another 30 mins. It is now ready to epoxy. Remember i also whip by hand so don't know if that has an effect?

So i suppose the physical time spent building was 2hrs, however it took me all morning so about 4 hrs to get to a state ready to epoxy (plenty tea :wink) The prep work done previously probably amounted to an hour or so

Once i start epoxy work, the Silk will get 3 very thin coats, but normally i would use 2 slightly thicker coats for nylon thread.
It takes me about 20mins to do a whole rod per coat. So i guess thats 2.5mins per ring, probably slightly longer for the thicker mix maybe 3 mins max per ring. The pot life of most epoxies seems to be between 25 and 45 mins depending on the room temp and the brand so i guess i'm governed by that, but i get a whole rod out of one mix (4cc's) with no problems. I generally get 6 mixes per pack.
Once applied i leave them to turn over night, generally about 10-12hrs, then leave another 10-12 hrs before applying the second coat, etc. Done about 8pm it gives you a couple of hours to make sure all is well.

Hope that helps, but it all depends how you work and organise yourself. :z18

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Ben_D

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 11:50:40 AM »
Cheers guys, just interested to know how long it takes someone who has been doing it for a while. Takes me an awful lot longer than that to get the components on  :z4

Probably taking about 5 mins each to put one coat of epoxy on each guide.  Going to try Threadmaster Lite next, although I like the finish I get from Flexcoat, it is always fairly gloopy to apply unless well warm which makes it start to gel.  I don't feel Flexcoat really soaks in well and requires quite abit of pressure or turns of the blank against the brush to get it to penetrate well. 

How do you guys rate Threadmaster against Flexcoat?


Cheers

Ben

Rob Brownfield

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 14:53:05 PM »
This should help:




Notice he just "gloops" it on to start with, then goes back with the flame and more finish. Even if the epoxy is going a bit thick, the flame liquifies it again.

It looks brutal, but it works.

As I told you in the shop, I have moved to a different make now but Threadmaster and Diamond Coat are meant to be good. I have always used Flex Coat but I will let you know how I get on with the new stuff I have.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Sandy Nelson

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 15:46:36 PM »
I much prefer quick thin coats. Flexcoat lite only goes gloopy if you take too long, sometimes i get that on the last ring or 2 of a longer rod or if i have taken too long on ferrules. I much prefer to build up layers with the first just enough to soak into the thread, the second enough to cover the surface to make it smooth and a third if required to achieve a perfect coverage. You can do it really quick if you don't get too precious about it and have a rod turner, its far more involved if you don't have the turner.
The self levelling properties of the flexcoat work best with thinner coats :wink

It lasts longer in the pot if you mix up less, i usually use a max of 2cc's hardener and 2cc's resin, sometimes i'll even only use 1cc of each but the mix becomes more critical regarding getting the balance right (2cc of each is a bit more tolerant) If you see what i mean. 4cc's will do a full 10ft rod with plenty left for the bin.

Flames and blanks don't mix in my experience :z10 i experimented with it and there is a critical point where the focussed heat melts the resin in the blank, you get no warning between solid and limp. Based on that i worry about what the heat does to the blank that you don't know about :z6 far too easy to wreck a blank for my liking.

I'm a long term Flexcoat lite fan :z16 have tried quite a few others without any real benefits, i have gotten some threadmaster lite this time (i got in syringe packs like the flexcoat for the first time) as i could get not Flexcoat lite in the UK (temporarily out of stock in the packs i like) So we shall see.

I shall let you know.

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Ben_D

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 17:28:00 PM »
Cheers guys  :z16

I think I'm just dithering and being too slow with it.  I've gone away from doing it in the turner I use for drying and now do it on my wrapper as I can turn whichever way I like or as fast or slow as I like.  The Stonefly dryer rotates very slowly, a bit too slow for my liking. 

The way I've been applying is to put minimal amount on the brush and turn the blank against it until all the thread has gone dark, that way I know it has soaked in and I have not got excess that is likely to cause any build up resulting in a wavy finish.  I think I'm just being too careful, finish is always spot on, it just seems to take forever to get it on.

I do use a flame to take out any bubbles, I put the side of a lighter flame about 5mm from the blank and turn it so I doubt I'm heating it enough to damage anything.  A few of my sticks have been well twatted now and are still in one piece!  A bit of heat really helps when doing a large area like over the logo and I've started applying finish along the length of the blank rather than by turning it against the brush, I seem to get it level that way every time.  I take your point about over heating though Sandy

Has anyone experimented with or know anything of the UV stuff that some of The Far east factories are using?

Cheers

Ben

Peter McCallum

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2014, 23:15:28 PM »


Has anyone experimented with or know anything of the UV stuff that some of The Far east factories are using?



 You mean Bug Bond Dude  :wink :X2

Ben_D

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 23:28:04 PM »
You mean Bug Bond Dude  :wink :X2

No Pete, I don't mean bug bond  :z4

Don't think it would be flexible enough but apparently there are flexible UV epoxies being used for rods.


Rob Brownfield

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 07:55:40 AM »

Don't think it would be flexible enough but apparently there are flexible UV epoxies being used for rods.


Interestingly, UV resin has been used for a long time, at least 10 years. There were a couple of US custom builders raving about it, one of them being Merrick Tackle. I did a quick search as I remembered Rodbuilder Magazine doing some tests and lo and behold, I found the company who supplied the UV stuff commercially, www.epoxycoatings.com However, they seem to have gone bust as the website is just links and the name is for sale :(. The test showed yellowing after a period of time, lack of levelling and a supstanded finish overall.

I also found some feedback from Lamiglas who suggested that the UV cure stuff does not bond to the blanks surface anywhere near as well as normal epoxy and is prone to, as they put it, "popping off" when flexed over a period of time.

On that note I did a quick search in the technical library here at work. Epoxy is classed as an adhesive whilst UV resin/acrylic is classed as a coating. This may explain the UV stuff not adhereing to blanks.

Just a thought.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Matt Henderson

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 08:09:37 AM »
It would probably take me a week of evenings.  Using three a night.  With regards to flexcoat lite I tend to do a four peice rod in two sections at a time, and just accept a lot of wastage.  At one point I tried to cut down to 2 coats but now I just accept that three thin coats gives a much better finish. 

Matt

Rob Brownfield

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 08:17:18 AM »
Damn it...just found another bit in our reference library...you can get UV cure adhesive resins...not just coatings, BUT, they will not flow and coat a wrap. They are mainly used by dentists to do invisible repairs as the UV penetrates the tooth and allows the resin to set.

Anyway, ...the cost is high, the correct lighting is expensive and I would hazard to guess that it is beyond the requirements of a home build rodbuilder :)
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Sandy Nelson

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 13:04:17 PM »
Sneak peak at progress thus far

Ginger and Salsa- Spicy :z12





Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Allan Liddle

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2014, 13:07:39 PM »
Looking good Sandy, lookin very good  :z16

Mike Barrio

Re: Build Time - Sandy / Rob
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2014, 13:34:41 PM »
Original ................ nice!

Cheers
Mike
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

 





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