Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Scolopax

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #15 on: 18/01/2014 at 07:51 »
Thank you for all your comments.  I will try to answer the questions that are in your minds.

As I have never yet tied a fly, the design was based on what I saw in other designs that seemed sensible.  As I use my hands for work all day, I do appreciate the requirements of ease of use, so that helped to eliminate a lot of clutter.  I also am passionate about clean simple design, anything unnecessary must go (which might apply to the Gallows tool - as I can already see a way to make that less intrusive).

The two main uprights are old rollers from an Ink Jet printer that went in the bin a few years ago (minus useful looking bits of metal and plastic). !!  The really difficult thing to do in all of this is to drill a rod - with hand tools this is very tricky - as the drill bit slides off the round shaft.  Getting it in the middle is essential.  There are many cases on this vice where I had to do that.  The piece of round steel that holds the bobbin holder had to be drilled right through the exact centre of its length and then twice through the width - each at right angles to each other - and in the centre.  That was the most tricky bit.  The knurled headed screws I bought for £0.48 each !

Oh, and the piece of magic was attaching the pulley for the bobbin holder - as the rod is stainless I do not have the equipment to form a pin-like head on the end to stop the pulley coming off.  So whilst thinking about this in my sleep, I came up with an alternative way to do it.  Drill a 1mm hole in the end of the rod (2mm in dia) and then insert the top part of a big-headed steel pin - glue it in place - simples !!

The bent arm that holds the vice needs to be adjustable up and down for different sized hooks, so there is a stainless M6 allen headed bolt on the end of the shaft to clamp it in place.  It just happened to have the same size head as my piece of steel - nice!  That shaft passes through the collar on the pillar (but it is in two parts) this would be replaced by a lathe turned piece if I had my way.

The rotating friction is supplied by the stainless washers which in turn clamp nylon washers onto PTFE washers which then grip the stainless collar on the pillar.  It means that it is tight, but turns smoothly.  And thank you for your help with the rotating centre - The design works so well as it is, that I will live with the slight offset which is because the bet arm is screwed to one of the jaws - not in the middle!

The finish on all these bits is easy to achieve in reality. Files, Emery paper and spin in a hand drill to give it a final polish with some fine cloth etc.  Oh, and I should say a lot of elbow grease - and blood sweat and tears - literally.

The Vice jaws - well I thought this was going to be the hardest bit, but in the end it was easy.   Just very time consuming.
They are hardened steel, so cannot be filed by normal files (without even more blood being spilt) - so they have to be ground to shape by a bench grinder (which had lain dusty in a corner for well over 25 years BTW) - then after some very delicate and careful grinding on the finer wheel to try and true up the faces as much as possible - to reduce the time taken on the next step.  It was over to diamond files and hard work.  Then finer diamond stones etc etc and a final polish - I intend to blacken them with gun-blue in the end.

As the handles are attached with screws they can be made to move - so now the vice handle points backwards out of the way - in line rather than forwards as it is in the picture.

Hope that all makes it clear

It will - I hope give me plenty of joy - especially considering the cost to me was almost nothing.  I am still using an easel I made in 1977 from beech wood.  I couldn't afford the one I wanted when I was 18 !!

It all started, because I looked at the prices and thought they were out of my reach - and the cost of a bobbin rest as an accessory - £24 - £39.  So that got me thinking - the rest you have heard.

Good clean design works well and lasts.
Take care
Colin







Sandy Nelson

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #16 on: 19/01/2014 at 09:06 »
Hi Colin

That is a lovely looking piece of engineering, awesome job from a garage.
I reckon you must be playing down the effort on those jaws though, working hardened steel is not for the faint-hearted and the accuracy of the finish is fab :z16

having seen quite a few of your pictures though i can imagine the effort that has gone in this, is the same you apply to your work.

Top job :z18, Can't wait to see the flies :z16

On a personal note regarding usage, I'm with Will, i never use a gallows tool, so wouldn't want it in the way, i also rest my left hand on top of the vice shank when tying, which is why i use a rotary and the only time i turn a fly is when i apply the varnish, or epoxy or i want to look at it, i never use the function for tying the fly.
I would also want somewhere to put a material spring (this i use a lot) although it could go just behind the first PTFE washer.

On a technical note Presto Black is a great way to protect the jaws from corrosion and nice and economical. :z16

Great stuff

Sandy

Scolopax

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #17 on: 19/01/2014 at 13:31 »
THANKS SANDY !

I have just re-made the vice support as the upright part was not straight and snagged in the shaft as it slid up for adjustment of hook height - it got bent when I was bending the metal.  So now it looks much cleaner in design.

Thanks also for the VERY helpful tips there, I will look into the black you suggested, gun blues are not nice things and tend to be very temporary anyway.

The gallows tool has been binned, I tried to tie my first fly last night and it was a nightmare - so it went !!!

I have seen the material springs you mention, would hackle pliers do the same job ??

The effort that went into the jaws was enjoyable, I have never minded putting effort in to get what I want. What was not enjoyable was wasting bits of steel by not getting the drill holes in the centre.  That was much harder to get right.

Regarding the flies, I suppose I need lessons on that as well as I did for casting from Will.

Anyone near me willing to show me the basics ?? - I have watched one or two vids by Davie McPhail, but the principles of why 'this is done' (for example)  are not obvious.

The first one I tied - was not pretty - admittedly I do not have any thread or materials yet, so I just found a feather and an old reel of cotton.  So when the materials do arrive I will not be ashamed to show my first attempt.  I know it will be bad :-))

regards
Colin


Sandy Nelson

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #18 on: 19/01/2014 at 13:42 »
Definatley looking better now :z16

The spring i was meaning would just loop round the centre.



Once you start tying you will see why i use it (although thinking about it, I use my bobbin rest extension as a sight board holder and use the spring to hold the thread :roll)
I guess it whatever you will find comfortable for you :z16

Will's probably a good person to advise on flytying too :wink

Sandy

Allan Liddle

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #19 on: 19/01/2014 at 19:00 »
Looks fantastic  :z16

Will Shaw

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #20 on: 19/01/2014 at 19:26 »
Yep drop me a line Colin, we'll sort something out. No Problem.

W.

Ben Dixon

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #21 on: 19/01/2014 at 22:20 »
Funny, I was just about to suggest going to see Will, he ties an irritatingly nice fly.  I'd suggest Will starts you on his Copydex poppers, that way everything else will be a piece of cake  :wink

Ben

Will Shaw

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #22 on: 19/01/2014 at 22:38 »
 :X2 :X2 :z4

Scolopax

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #23 on: 03/02/2014 at 09:02 »
Well, what can I say. Ben was right, when Will opened his boxes to show me some sample flies, I was amazed, they looked so small and dainty compared to most that I had seen.

But I can see why, with almost minimal hand movements, he showed me how to tie a Hendrickson's Spider (never even heard of that one) and several others. I was full of admiration for with such little fuss - patterns were appearing on the table in no time.

I thought back to the mess of broken feathers on the floor upstairs from my attempts . . .

Thank you so much Will, for letting me in of the art of tying.  I had a list of things I couldn't do and wanted to learn to get me started and forgot all about it until the end - but of course as Will is very used to teaching skills, he had already answered all of them.

I am very grateful for the numerous little tips that were so willingly given.  I am now able to tie flies that at least bear a passing resemblance to what they are supposed to look like - Oh, and my thread doesn't keep slipping off the hook either.

Trouble is now, everywhere I go I am thinking about materials for fly tying - I even dream of tying - what on earth has happened ?

Thanks Will - and to the other members for all your help - I am now bitten by a bug

Mike Barrio

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #24 on: 03/02/2014 at 09:38 »
Excellent ...... let the fun begin :z16

Best wishes
Mike

Will Shaw

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #25 on: 03/02/2014 at 13:27 »
That's an Endrick Spider Colin!  :z4

Glad you enjoyed it. If you pick it up as quickly as the casting you'll be turning out framed salmon flies in no time!

W.

Scolopax

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #26 on: 05/02/2014 at 07:36 »
That's an Endrick Spider Colin!  :z4

Glad you enjoyed it. If you pick it up as quickly as the casting you'll be turning out framed salmon flies in no time!

W.

Ooops - I wrote it down correctly, but when I looked for a pattern only Hendrickson came up, so thought I misheard you
Thanks
Add: Just found Mike's excellent post on how to tie the very same !  - this forum is awesome - which is more than I can say for another one !!
C

Scolopax

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #27 on: 05/02/2014 at 21:06 »
Just realised I said that I would post my first attempts at fly tying.

Well, to start I have learnt a lot, don't even think of having a glass (or two) before or during - I had to cut all my hard efforts off the hook before I retired defeated last night !!

What have I learnt - nymphs are easier than most !!  There is a HUGE amount of waste - and cats are fascinated by the bits and the FLIES, so that was worth learning quickly !

Wing slips are very difficult and the bobbin rest that seems a standard fitment to most vices - is a pain in the ..... and gets in the way.  But if you leave the bobbin dangling by its own weight, it unravels the thread and makes it break even more easily.  So new bobbin rest under design . . .

OK, here we go  - this one was supposed to be a Black Pennel, but I got carried away - and the other thing I have learnt is that most of the feathers on my capes are way too big !!

Next one is a Black Pennel

Nymphs follow

These are my very first attempts and I am sure I will get better  :-)









Mike Barrio

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #28 on: 06/02/2014 at 08:53 »
Excellent ..... good efforts :z16

Cheers
Mike

Marc Fauvet

Re: Poor Man's Vice ?
« Reply #29 on: 06/02/2014 at 11:02 »
 :z16

 




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