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Ben_D

Lined Guides
« on: September 22, 2013, 23:10:33 PM »
Just about to build a rod for casting 27g sea trout distance (ST27) heads on mono RL of about 0.45mm.

Thinking of using the following.  I know there is no reason it should cause any issues but I'm having a hard time getting my head around the small ID of the lined rings, snakes for the same blank would be at least 50% larger in diameter.

Section      Fuji                    ID (mm)
1        T-FST(6)2.0              4.1
        T-LSG-6J              4.1
        T-LSG-6J              4.1
        T-LSG-6J              4.1
        T-LSG-6J              4.1
2        T-LSG-7J              4.8
        T-LSG-7J              4.8
        T-LSG-8J              5.4
3        T-LSG-10J              7.0
ST1        T-LNSG-12J              8.3
ST2        T-LNSG-16J             10.6

The last two guides are strippers, thinking however I may use Fuji K series guides in #16 & #20 instead, any thoughts on them on a fly rod?


Cheers

Ben

Rob Brownfield

Re: Lined Guides
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 08:14:54 AM »
K series were designed for braid. ie, wet and floppy. The reasoning being that as braid comes off of a wet fixed or multiplier spool, it can slap around the butt ring and occasionally loop around it, especially in a cross wind. This can result in a snap off or if using 6oz jerk baits, the butt ring being destroyed. The K series is meant to stop this happening.

Found this demo here

So, I would not see any advantage in using them for your rod for what you are using it for. I think they would probably work out a wee bit heavier too as the frames are bigger. Having said that, due to the angle of the ring, as your shooting line comes up off the floor, it would "possibly" come over the ring with a fraction less friction.

Like I said in the shop, Fuji have done a lot of research on ring diameter, weight and numbers and their Fuji Concept ringing, ie, more rings of a smaller diameter and lighter weight, has been shown to allow line to flow more smoothly and thus casts go further.

Its all about getting loose line under control very quickly, and keeping it off the blank. They found line slap against the blank could reduce a cast by 25% distance. Here is some high speed footage, the line does not touch the blank at all.



Naturally you do not have the coning issue of a fixed spool reel, but, the principle for the rest of the rings still stands.

Also, and this is the bit I find more interesting, Fuji found that the more rings, and therefore the closer the line follows the curve of the blank, more "power" can be transmitted to the cast/strike. They are talking of a 10-15% increase on a spinning rod.

Presumably, that would also translate to a fly rod, possibly not with such a gain as a fly rod already has more rings following the curve of the blank. Where snake rings fail in this concept, is that the line touches the blank, especially on the forward cast and shoot.

Eliminate that line touching and I believe you will get several yards more shoot.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Ben_D

Re: Lined Guides
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 08:24:30 AM »
Thanks Rob,

That was my thought on K guides, reduced friction for line coming up on shoot, may even help with hauling but I need to give this some thought.  I am currently buying the idea of keeping line off the blank and getting it running with as little slap as possible, wet mono sticks to stuff, blanks, waders, skin anything.  Getting it organised and into a good shape quick makes a lot of sense.

Cheers

Ben

Rob Brownfield

Re: Lined Guides
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 08:37:24 AM »
Indeed it does :)

About 20 years ago, Ryobi Masterline produced a fly rod that was basically rung like a spinning rod. The rings were like the old Daiwa Dynaflow rings, large and stood off from the blank. I remember it shooting extremely well, but the line was too far from the blank, which caused the blank to twist on the forward cast. They broke fairly easily and the concept never caught on.

Modern rod building technology may mean the concept could work :) Looks rank though!
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

 




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