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Mike Barrio

Guideline #6 or #8
« on: August 30, 2013, 10:02:01 AM »
How does the Guideline rod rating system work for single handed rods? .... here we have a rod rated AFTM #6 with a recommended casting weight of 13-15g / 200-232 grains ..... so pretty much an AFTM #8 casting weight?


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Hamish Young

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2013, 10:24:19 AM »
I think they may have gone out on their own there Mike....."offering a surprising and very positive “Slingshot” feeling during the cast" comes from their spiel about the Exceed single handers but interestingly a cursory glance through their fly lines shows that their own #6wt 'Experience' line comes in at some 17 grams, the '4cast' at 14 grams, the 'Control' at 14.5 grams and the 'bullet' at 13 grams. Chunky for a 6wt then but that might not be the whole story..... could they be referring to the 'all up' weight of the line over the standard AFFTA spec for 30ft of line minus level tip ??? I dunno.

Perhaps, at a design meeting, a suggestion was put forward that Exceed refers to the over-weight characteristics..... "we call it a 6 but everyone else would call it a 8, feel better about yourself as we have called it a 6  :z7"

:wink
“When tired at last, he sat on the bank, while the river still chattered on to him, a babbling procession of the best stories in the world, sent from the heart of the earth to be told at last to the insatiable sea.”

Mike Barrio

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2013, 10:33:20 AM »
Dunno Hamish :z8

Looking at that casting weight, I reckon that would possibly be about right for a shooting head?

So .... is the "REC. CASTING WT" actually the recommended weight for a shooting head outside the rod tip? :roll

Cheers
Mike
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:56:15 AM by Mike Barrio »
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Marc Fauvet

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2013, 11:08:02 AM »
the northern magnetic fields greatly affect weight scales and brain/nervous system functions. don't expect anything rational...  :z4

Mike Barrio

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2013, 11:15:06 AM »
I receive emails like this one from Sweden ....... which can be difficult to reply to :wink

The email included the specification graphic shown in my first post.

I'm interested in your GT90 line which is being recommended by many people on the Swedish flyfishing site edgeflyfishing.com.
I have a class 6 rod (Guideline Exceed) and for this rod Guideline recommend a flyline that weigh 13-15 g (13-15g/200-232 grains).
Which class (GT90)  would you suggest for this rod?
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Ben_D

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2013, 11:21:03 AM »
Hi Mike,

That is a shooting head weight and about what I would stick on most modern fast actioned rods rated as #6 fishing with.  13ish grams would be about right for a head of 30'ish, 15g would be about right for head of mid to high 30's.  Guideline are stating that the rod works well for the purpose it was intended, for most anglers, when lined with an AFFTA compliant #6 line.

Quote
#6wt 'Experience' line comes in at some 17 grams, the '4cast' at 14 grams, the 'Control' at 14.5 grams and the 'bullet' at 13 grams. Chunky for a 6wt

Weights & numbers are absolutely useless when talking about weights of flyline unless a length is stipulated.

Cheers

Ben  


Ben_D

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 11:24:29 AM »
I receive emails like this one from Sweden ....... which can be difficult to reply to :wink

The email included the specification graphic shown in my first post.

I'm interested in your GT90 line which is being recommended by many people on the Swedish flyfishing site edgeflyfishing.com.
I have a class 6 rod (Guideline Exceed) and for this rod Guideline recommend a flyline that weigh 13-15 g (13-15g/200-232 grains).
Which class (GT90)  would you suggest for this rod?


I knew why you were posting that question mate.  Guideline are only giving half of the story there, they really do need to add some length numbers into their info or drop the gram data or, rename "rec. casting head weight" recomended shooting head weight and add lengths in there.  

Cheers

Ben
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 20:41:19 PM by Ben_D »

Mike Barrio

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 11:28:04 AM »
rename "rec. casting head weight" to "recomended shooting head weight" 

Good plan! :z16
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Rob Brownfield

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 13:17:28 PM »
The Guideline MD sent me a lovely letter regarding line weights for my rod. He stated that shooting heads are popular in Scandinavia and that all line weights were for shooting heads. Now, I was talking to him about double handers, but the implication was ALL rods.

Out of interest, my 12 and a half footer is rated 8/9 by Guideline. Their own DCC line at that rating is 31g, 11m. The MacKenzie is 38g at 12m. I am using a MacKenzie 7/8 just now which is a 32 g and 11m.


So, as clear as mud :)
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Ben_D

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 21:12:10 PM »
The Guideline MD sent me a lovely letter regarding line weights for my rod. He stated that shooting heads are popular in Scandinavia and that all line weights were for shooting heads. Now, I was talking to him about double handers, but the implication was ALL rods.

Out of interest, my 12 and a half footer is rated 8/9 by Guideline. Their own DCC line at that rating is 31g, 11m. The MacKenzie is 38g at 12m. I am using a MacKenzie 7/8 just now which is a 32 g and 11m.


So, as clear as mud :)


Rob,

Is the rod rated for grams too or just as 8/9?

Longer heads will always be heavier than shorter heads for the same rod, 38g over 12m will feel very different to 38g stretched over 22m.  I'm not familiar with your exact rod but most Guidelines rated 8/9 I have tried have worked well with an AFS 8/9 (34g, 38.5') or a DTX 8/9 (38g, 39.5').  AFS has more mass at the back so feels about the same as the DTX head when Spey casting in terms of weight.

You're right though, as lines become more technical things become more confusing.  There are a lot of lines out there that do not conform to AFFTA standard these days because they have heads of under 30' or are designed to work in a specific way that means they are over weight at 30'.  AFFTA system is not perfect in terms of describing everything on the market but I have no better solution.

Cheers

Ben`

Rob Brownfield

Re: Guideline #6 or #8
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2013, 09:19:12 AM »
Hi Ben, the rod is rated at 31g or 8/9. The Guideline 8/9 DCC is 31g and was the line recommended by the Guideline MD.

Rio's chart recommends the 7/8 AFS, the 7/8 UniSpey and a 480-510grn Scandi Short (31g-33g)

I tried the 38g MacK line but it really does feel way to heavy. However, it works lovely on my LTS 9 weight. That is rated 36g and 14 foot rather than the 12 and a half of the Guideline. This rod also likes the Rio AFS Outbound 9/10 that I picked up second hand.

Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

 





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