Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Ben Dixon

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #15 on: 11/05/2013 at 07:24 »

It is possible to be a wee bit too emotional/precious about these things and lambasting the captor publicly is a new blood sport in some ways :!

I do still knock the occasional fish on the head, but I am not sure what I'd do if I were faced with a trout of that size and the quandary of to keep or to return. The amount of will power it would take to return such a fish is possibly beyond me, when it happens again I'll let you know what happened  :z7
With that said, that is a record fish.


Really H?  I'm a bit shocked at that.  

The way I see it is that a fish like that is too special to be caught only once, it could have been another anglers fish of a lifetime too, it's a specimen fish.  Big fish produce more eggs etc, it's far more valuable alive.  Only my opinion  :wink

Ben

I should have added earlier that I also take the occasional fish, I just wouldn't take a specimen from what is still a recovering fishery.

Cheers

Ben

Jim Eddie

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #16 on: 11/05/2013 at 18:34 »
Here is the take on it from Loch Leven

" Although we had no say in whether the fish was killed or released (It was caught around noon and the first we heard was when Alan arrived back in the harbour at 6pm), we at Loch Leven Fisheries were delighted he brought back the fish with him. Loch Leven has a long and varied history as a world renowned brown trout fishery and this fish was truly historic, being by some way the largest brown trout ever caught, surpassing the previous one which had stood for over 100 years.

True, it could have been weighed, measured for length and girth, photographed and released if the anglers had all that necessary equipment to hand – and who knows what condition it would have been in after all of that and whether it would have been in any shape to survive once released particularly after the fight it put up before being landed? However, we would still be reliant on the evidence of 2 anglers and a weigh-in of limited accuracy. Bearing in mind its significance in the history of Loch Leven, we were delighted to have been able to officially confirm it as a record. It is not going to be eaten (you may or may not be right about how it might taste) but instead be preserved, mounted and displayed alongside the trout that has previously held the record for over 100 years.

Had it been released, it may or may not have survived. However, in all likelihood when the scales are analysed by Marine Scotland, we will probably find that the fish is around 10 years old. If that is the case, it would be very much in its twilight years and likely to die from natural causes if for no other reason within a year or two. We dont know for sure how old Loch Leven trout can live to but, Willie Wilson, with all his 50+ years dealing with brown trout in this part of Scotland, has never known one to be aged by the laboratory at more than 11 years old.

Various anglers have lamented that, by no longer being alive, the trout would not be able to pass its genes to future generations of potentially large specimens. I would not worry too much about that – I suspect it has been happily spreading its ‘genes’ around for many years up until now.

We at Loch Leven Fisheries are hugely appreciative of the increasingly responsible attitude taken by anglers about catch & release over the last decade or so. That said, we are 100% in support of anglers who do kill some of the trout they catch where they are taking them home ‘for the pot’. After all, fishing for food is arguably the fundamental rationale for fishing for trout in the first place. Indeed, we encourage anglers to take them home to eat because, as a unique pink fleshed brown trout, they are utterly delicious to eat. Where we would look on askance would be if killed fish were subsequently just dumped which some ‘put & take’ fisheries have anecdotally experienced.

Catch & Release, when done with care, will certainly have helped in the recovery of the Loch Leven trout population over the last decade or so but we suspect it is only a relatively small factor. For any number of contributory reasons, not least the huge improvement in water quality which has resulted in abundant foodstuffs on which trout can feed, the current fish population in terms of numbers is more than capable of sustaining the relatively small proportion of brownies that are killed each year, both by anglers and cormorants etc. If we felt for one moment that there was an issue about numbers, we would pass that on to anglers and review our policy of having no specified limit at all on trout caught by anglers. But we dont have any concerns at the moment about either trout numbers or irresponsible anglers. We think, and hope, that we have a good balance here at Loch Leven. "

 :z18

Jim

Allan Liddle

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #17 on: 18/05/2013 at 09:13 »
Well put and thought provoking reply from Leven Fisheries.
Personally would still have liked to see the fish returned, but I will still visit and look on in awe when finally displayed.

Leven is a truly remarkable, important, historic and iconic trout loch and I am truly amazed at the recovery it is showing after all it has faced over the years.  Yes the loss of this fish isn't going to stop this, but the general change in anglers attitude to one of restraint with the 'priest' isn't a minor issue in helping this to continue, not just on Leven but all our wild waters.

Careful C&R is a major factor in helping all our 'Trophy' venues realise some of the true potential we have in Scotland and I hope this attitude continues to grow through the angling fraternity (all of it, not just trout fishers).

That said there is certainly a place for keeping fish you intend to eat (the fundamental reason we started going fishing in the first place) and I certainly do keep one or two on occasion when I know they're not going to be wasted.  We're all adults able to make educated decisions, for me returning a fish for what I consider to be the right reasons gives me greater satisfaction than killing it to show it off.

However if I'd caught this fish in a National Final then I must confess I'd be caught up in the occasion and open to the label of hypocrite, but this is a whole other debate.

It is a great thing that Anglers in Scotland (residents and visitors alike) are retuning more fish, something I hope continues both in practice, but more importantly in educated attitude (educated not just in the simple action of C&R, but also when it is right to do so, a much more difficult, concept that needs a lot more debate and study.  Even then it'll be something we all won't ever get 100% correct and I'm conscious I may have opened a Pandoras Box here)

In the end our big fish really are too important to catch only once, and if you take them out the equation it takes some time for that to recover, time too valuable to be lost.

Allan Liddle

Will Shaw

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #18 on: 18/05/2013 at 10:59 »
Some really good and balanced comments here. I'd add:

Record fish: Why does this make a difference? A record is just a number on a page - why does this justify killing a fish? We didn't shoot Usane Bolt after the 100m finals and stick him on the wall did we? The same goes for if it was caught in a competition: So you'll compromise your ethics for the glory of winning?  :z6

Education: This is a very important point for me. If you show pictures of big, dead fish, then the uninformed are free to think, "well if he can kill that, I can certainly kill my 2lber PB". Show pics of beautiful big fish going back, and that's what people will want to do.

It'd be good if Leven offered advice to customers on C&R, safe handling, photography. Oh and maybe a (2 fish?) slot limit would be a good idea.

W.

Allan Liddle

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #19 on: 19/05/2013 at 12:52 »
Hi Will
Yup agree a very interesting thread and throws up some craking points, not to mention opens up some excellent debates.

Hope you don't mind but have added a little to your points below;

Regards

Allan Liddle


Some really good and balanced comments here. I'd add:

Record fish: Why does this make a difference? A record is just a number on a page - why does this justify killing a fish? We didn't shoot Usane Bolt after the 100m finals and stick him on the wall did we? The same goes for if it was caught in a competition: So you'll compromise your ethics for the glory of winning?  :z6

Yup Will agree with this and have tried to show the issue with anglers keen to kill a wild fish simply because it's a PB.

One of the reasons i don't fish Competitions now, but times are becoming more educated and C&R featuring more and more.  Stocked waters offer a different 'amgle' here as fish removed can be replaced and not something i have much of an issue with (provided they are still being treated respectfully; i.e not wasted or dumped for the sake of a 'tin cup')


Education: This is a very important point for me. If you show pictures of big, dead fish, then the uninformed are free to think, "well if he can kill that, I can certainly kill my 2lber PB". Show pics of beautiful big fish going back, and that's what people will want to do.

Believe this is certainly making a difference, more enlightened approach is welcome but we also have to be careful we don't forget that we sometimes eat what we catch.  Returning trophies certainly but i don't see a problem with retaining a few smaller fish, especially if i know the water can sustain it, again this is about continous education and 'angling experience'.


It'd be good if Leven offered advice to customers on C&R, safe handling, photography. Oh and maybe a (2 fish?) slot limit would be a good idea.

Yup but again if you see Leven when 'on' you'd see that fish number isn't an issue.  I'd have liked this particular fish to have been returned to possibly be caught again hopefully a few ounces / pounds bigger.

W.

Will Shaw

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #20 on: 20/05/2013 at 12:44 »
Quote
Believe this is certainly making a difference, more enlightened approach is welcome but we also have to be careful we don't forget that we sometimes eat what we catch.  Returning trophies certainly but i don't see a problem with retaining a few smaller fish, especially if i know the water can sustain it, again this is about continous education and 'angling experience'.


It'd be good if Leven offered advice to customers on C&R, safe handling, photography. Oh and maybe a (2 fish?) slot limit would be a good idea.

Yup but again if you see Leven when 'on' you'd see that fish number isn't an issue.  I'd have liked this particular fish to have been returned to possibly be caught again hopefully a few ounces / pounds bigger.

I agree - that's why I'd have a slot limit (say two fish between 12 and 18 inches) . That says to me (1) it's ok to take a fish here and there and (2) but do so with restraint and not the big fish.

I also think we need be wary of falling into the trap of saying "aye there's loads in there - it can take it". I think they were saying that about cod off Nova Scotia, BF tuna, herring and cod in the North sea, eels generally. Bet they said the same about N.American Bison, Passenger Pigeons, and the Dodo...

W.

Rob Brownfield

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #21 on: 20/05/2013 at 13:00 »
I had the misfortune of catching an 11 pound Brownie that went belly up despite lots of holding in the margins etc. Decided to take it to the local hotel, have it cooked and shared at the bar, rather than see it go to waste.

Tasted bloody horrible!, very muddy and not very nice at all.

I suspect this particular fish might go the same way..in the bin.

Allan Liddle

Re: Loch Leven record brown trout
« Reply #22 on: 20/05/2013 at 16:44 »
Yup agree Will, but we really do have a lot of waters that can sustain a good level of fish removal (in fact many would benifit, but this is a whole other debate again).  Management is the key here and not just let it go as a free for all, so yes a rigid and well policed limit a very useful management tool.  Education an even better one though.

We've been through the years of chap it on the heid and 'admire it on the pavement outside the pub' whilst revelling in the quality of the diving minnow or other such fish clearing methods, hopefully never to return to this ever again otherwise i fear your Dodo / Bison / Tuna comment might be closer to the mark that some may think.

 




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