Fishing The Fly Forum, based in Aberdeenshire,  Scotland

Jim Eddie

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 06:15:39 AM »
Lindsay

If you have no problem with wildlife management when justified then we are in agreement.

The definition of an  apex predator is an animal who, as an adult, has no natural predators in its ecosystem. Last time I looked we had no natural predators.

"I find that staggeringly difficult to believe eg, the Salmon population doubles if we shoot 6 Seals"  So do I,  where did I say you could extrapolate that ? 

Here is the research paper http://www.abdn.ac.uk/lighthouse/documents/pdf/fme_504.pdf

 :z18

Jim
"Because in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing what they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion."

Loxiafan

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 13:10:02 PM »

If you have no problem with wildlife management when justified then we are in agreement.

The definition of an  apex predator is an animal who, as an adult, has no natural predators in its ecosystem. Last time I looked we had no natural predators.

Jim,

Lions are classed as 'apex' predators as are Tigers. They kill to eat, we kill them to 'manage' them, or as you said before "for fun", so your definition is possibly tenuous. Both surely can't be apex. Do we 'naturally' predate Lions and Tigers ? I don't think so, we protect livestock and our own lives - they eat us ! I agree that, because we have shaped the environment (often to its detriment), then we are responsible for 'managing' it. However, I do not clearly agree with your ideas on that management, sorry.

I found and read that paper last night. It is a 'desk' scientist type paper based on counted seal numbers, often assumed, and assumed levels of predation and assumed level of consumption. I suggest you read the paper in detail especially regarding the scientists own admission of 'bias' in their results. Yes, the Moristion, based on their 'model', could increase by 17% by removing the one seal they assume is there all the time, so instead of an annual catch of 68 it would increase to a whopping 80 ! But on larger more normal rivers, the modelled effect of seal removal did not increase exponentially:

"a generalised model of seal removal illustrated that stocks and catches increased by (less than or equal to) 33% in rivers with monthly rod catches of less than or equal to 10 fish but declined to (less than or equal to) 10% with catches of more than 34 fish per month".

So, although the percentage increases look good, in reality the 'model' predicts that seal removal on a river where less than 10 fish are caught per month this would result in 13/14 fish per month. On a 'good' river, like the Dee or Don (!) we can expect a 10% increase in rod catches.

The paper also concludes that the impact of seals on stocks is worse in Spring. As the Ythan is not a 'spring' river for either Salmon or Sea Trout I would take it that the impact is lower than is being made out.

For what it is worth, I think it is a very useful paper to allow river managers and governing bodies to monitor policy and appropriate action on wildlife management.  :z16 But it is easy to extract 'sound bytes' and sensationalise figures, when in fact the whole picture needs to be rationalised.

I've said enough on this now, we will just have to agree to disagree  :wink

Cheers,

Lindsay
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 13:36:36 PM by Loxiafan »

Jim Eddie

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 13:33:29 PM »
Lindsay

We both agree on the main point as you said "wildlife management when justified" if managing seal numbers has no justification I don't have a problem with that either.

 :z18

Jim

 
"Because in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing what they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion."

Duncan McRae

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 13:37:10 PM »
Hi Sandy

Nice sea trout.
The marks certainly look like they might have been made by a seal but i suppose there might be many other possiblities.

I like your photo of the river further upstream it's a lovely spot.
Around 5 years ago i put my name on the waiting list for membership there but have not heard anything since!
Have you a season ticket?

Regards
Duncan


Sandy Nelson

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 16:46:23 PM »

Have you a season ticket?

Sort of, i got the fishing rights for One rod with my house :z16. It belongs to the property so i don't intend moving anytime soon :z12

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Jim Eddie

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 21:05:07 PM »
Hi Sandy

Nice sea trout.
The marks certainly look like they might have been made by a seal but i suppose there might be many other possiblities.

I like your photo of the river further upstream it's a lovely spot.
Around 5 years ago i put my name on the waiting list for membership there but have not heard anything since!
Have you a season ticket?

Regards
Duncan



Duncan my club has 1 mile double bank just south of Fyvie and 2 miles single bank on the Braes on Minonnie we are loooking for new members, however it helps if you are in the Civil Service. I could enquire about an assocaite membership if you are interested.

 :z18

Jim
"Because in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing what they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion."

Duncan McRae

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 22:35:36 PM »
Sandy

Wish i could find a deal like that!


Jim

Thanks for your kind offer.
I have actually just moved house from Ellon to the Alford area so probably too far away now.
I have fished just downstream at Methlick for years now and regard it as one of favourite beats so i would recommend your beat to anyone looking for fishing on the Ythan.

Duncan



Rob Brownfield

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2013, 11:42:15 AM »
Sandy

Wish i could find a deal like that!


It is possible.

I can fish "my" beat on the Dee any time after or before the paying guests are off the water. In 5 years I have not wet a line :(

I will this year though. Most guests are off by 6 in the evening so a few hours fishing is possible.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Sandy Nelson

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2013, 18:09:30 PM »
Got an Hour or so this afternoon.
Bloody cold, but the water is clearing nicely Not too high either.
Fished through with a 1/2" tungsten black/red tube and a fast sinking tip, Finally got a decent pull :z18 Hurrah, but was so busy in a daydream that i missed it completely :roll. So no idea how big or what it was. But it was a fish, so its a start.

If the weather stays reasonable then might be worth a cast next week :z16

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Sandy Nelson

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2013, 16:34:19 PM »
Been down for a couple of Hours this afternoon.
The water is getting lower and is quite clear.

Lots of flies hatching off all afternoon
Including these bad boys

March Browns



Large Dark Olives



I didnt see anything rising or any Tourists moving :z6 But it was a lovely afternoon to be on the river.

Does it get much better than this.........well a fish or two would have been the cherry, hopefully they wake up soon :z16




Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Dave Mundie

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2013, 17:01:42 PM »
I was also out from around 10:30 till 3, nothing to report fish wise either.

I couldn't even say I seen any fly life either unless I'm looking in the wrong places.

Was mainly practicing my casting but wasn't doing too well (Ben have to get you out on the Ythan).

Here's a couple of pics from my phone.







Dave

Mike Barrio

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2013, 17:41:35 PM »
Cracking photos Sandy :z16

Cheers
Mike
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Goolager

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2013, 21:26:19 PM »
Photo's at last Dave  :z16 pity about the fish but that seems to be the theme at the moment.  :cry

Sandy, nice reel is it an Airflo?  :X2

Iain

Allan Liddle

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2013, 23:39:47 PM »
Lovin the photos guys.  :z16

Sandy Nelson

Re: River Ythan 2013
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2013, 19:02:13 PM »
So with my trip to the Don Cancelled :cry and the sun shining, Sandra thought it would be  a great time to continue with the gardening :z6

So thats what i did through till 4 pm i kept an eye on the river but saw no movement so wasn't too bothered. Come 4 pm i found the gate and disappeared to go and wave my Stick, spent a wee while searching with a dry but nothing moving, probably too late, But the water is crystal clear and running a wee bit above summer levels. I dive back to the house and swap for my Switch outfit, why not, it can't be any less productive. I Set up with my New Barrio Switch 6/7 and a 10ft fast sinking tip, an 8ft tippet and a Size 12 Sparse tied Thunder and Lightning.

Back down to the water and start to revel in the awesomeness of the new line , Fantastic Job Guys :z16 What a belter, just perfect for the wee river out back. Turnover is great even with the Sinking tip. Working my down a nice streamy bit of water and BUMP i get a take, Cool :z12 So i keep going. BUMP this time i hook up and after a short fight this little fella is Quickly unhooked and returned to the river.







Not a monster, but a nice fresh Finnock and very pretty :z3  another couple of steps and BUMP i get another about the same size. This one is returned without coming out the river, The wee doubles are all de-barbed as are all my flies whatever i fish for. :z16 I spend a few more minutes working the pool end, but no more action. Feeling hungry now i return home. But its been a great afternoon for firsts, First fish on the new Switch rod, first fish on the new switch line, first fish of the season off the beat and the first fish on the new style sparse flies. Didn't even take a net with me :X1 But then thats maybe why i finally got some fish :z4 :z4

So the Don may be out of order for a few days but the Ythan isn't :z16

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

 




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