[Loxiafan]

Does anyone know about Finnock fishing on the ADAA Ythan beats early season eg. pre 1st April Trout season ? I intend fishing barbless wets on the upper and mid beats. Would this be regarded as 'unsporting' given the time of year (I believe the ADAA president and others fish for them then though?). Or are the Finnock by-catch for guys worming and spinning for Salmon from Feb 11th ? Am I better targeting Grayling on the Isla ? !

I thought it would also be a good chance to check these beats out as I haven't thus far.

Thanks for any advice/comments.

Lindsay

[Loxiafan]

Sorted now anyway, but amazed no-one on here knew anything......the infamous Ythan Mafioso ? !

L

[Iain Cameron]

Sorted now anyway, but amazed no-one on here knew anything......the infamous Ythan Mafioso ? !

hi lindsay

I forgot to point you at the beat summary at http://www.adaa.org.uk/beats/beatMethlick.php

I'd say the relevant text would be
"Fly-fishing is not generally successful during the early part of the season, the water is cold and the finnock are not as active as they are later in the year.... At this time finnock are often in poor condition"

though, since the recommended times to fish are Feb/March, then July onwards, i'd interpret that as "chance of a spring salmon" then "sea trout appearing"??

if you're at the ADAA AGM tonight, worth trying to bend a few ears
cheers
iain

[Loxiafan]

Thanks Iain, I'd seen that Summary but also know that certain 'senior' members appear to target Finnock from opening day, certainly according to Dave Gordon's T&S Reports - don't know if they only worm or not though

I certainly wouldn't be breaking any rules as far as I can tell, and given that the President and Secretary catch Finnock at this time then it surely wouldn't be regarded as poor form, especially as I would be fly fishing (I ain't no worm drowner.....anymore !) ??

I have had reasonable success on the Don in April with over wintered Finnock at Kintore beat in 1999 with a swung Silver March Brown and Bloody Butcher, though I must admit I wasn't specifically targetting them. Though some were a bit skinny others gave a decent account of themselves. Mine as you know all go back. It will be cold but that doesn't deter me and it would a great chance to check these beats out for troot potential and fling a line over running water !

Can't manage the AGM unfortunately as I am working 

Lindsay

[Rob Brownfield]

I certainly wouldn't be breaking any rules as far as I can tell, and given that the President and Secretary catch Finnock at this time then it surely wouldn't be regarded as poor form, especially as I would be fly fishing (I ain't no worm drowner.....anymore !) ??

Hmmm...I would not use that one as justification. 

However, I have just looked at the rules. Clearly says River Ythan, Season 11th of Feb to 31st of October. No mention of a different season for Trout/Salmon.

Technically a Finnock is a Sea Trout (I believe) so would come under migratory rules.. http://www.atlanticsalmontrust.org/salmon-and-sea-trout-facts/what-is-a-finnock.html

This means they are fair game from the 11th of Feb...as I read it. Open to correction if I am wrong.

[Loxiafan]

Hmmm...I would not use that one as justification. 

I am not using that as a justification and was why I was canvassing opinion on this Forum. No one replied....until I said I'm going to do it !

Technically, one could say that they were targetting Sea Trout if the season is 11th Feb, and as long as No Sunday fishing and within general rules, then no breach of by-laws or Association rules.....but is it 'poor form' targetting Finnock, even with the intention of releasing them as I originally asked ? This all came up last year with all the so-called Sea Trout kelts that were being caught on the Don - if there are supposedly no fresh Sea Trout entering the system then surely that opening date needs bumped forward and personally I'd be happy with that.

If it is deemed unethical then of course I'd listen hence my OP. If it is such a hoo-ha, which it seems it is, I'll just give it a miss, no sweat. About time the BT season was moved to 15th March like the rest of the civillized world - rivers further North like the Deveron open in March afterall and last year March was excellent by all accounts !

L

[Noel Kelly]

 About time the BT season was moved to 15th March like the rest of the civillized world - rivers further North like the Deveron open in March afterall and last year March was excellent by all accounts !

L

Agreed! I've never had a markedly poor condition trout from the don in early April.

[Allan Liddle]

Agreed! I've never had a markedly poor condition trout from the don in early April.

Deveron can be, but not all the time, and some years you do get out of condition fish, depends on the winter really.
But agree can be excellent early season, last year was unbelievable and without doubt the best i've had, so far...

Also have to ask why the different seasons for what is the same species, simply different feeding habits?  Sea going browns is a far better and more apt name what's the difference between seatrout and broonies?  About a fortnight. 

[Mike Barrio]

About time the BT season was moved to 15th March like the rest of the civillized world - rivers further North like the Deveron open in March afterall and last year March was excellent by all accounts !

What are the rules on the Don this year? The River Don Trust/ River Don Brown Trout Improvement Association had the following in the River Don Brown Trout Conservation Policy 2012: http://www.riverdon.org.uk/brown_trout_improv_assn/rdbtia_conservation_code_2012.asp
"Season: 1st April to 1st October. (March 15th for catch & release)"

Best wishes
Mike

[Loxiafan]

I asked that very question on here last year Mike:

http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0

Apparently we have to wait until April 1st 

It should really be moved to 15th March like elsewhere - if the Deveron can be 15th March why cant the Don 

Lindsay

[Rob Brownfield]

Maybe this kind of thing would be a justification for a Rod License and one governing body?

[Loxiafan]

Maybe this kind of thing would be a justification for a Rod License and one governing body?

But would this assure the same statuatory season/opening dates ? I thought that the BT opening day varies in England as well, but correct me if I am wrong ? Same situation with Grayling in Scotland, some places it is October others it is January (presumably to protect Spawning/Redds).

The Don Trout Improvement Assoc recommendation is confusing as it does imply Catch and Release from 15th March, thus fish are only "takeable" from 1st April. I saw the statement in FF&FT last Feb and got well excited !

Cheers,

Lindsay

[Duncan McRae]

Hi Lindsay

Just noticed your original post.

I personally think it is unsporting to fish for early season finnock.
I'm not entirely certain but it is my belief that although they are immature seatrout,the Finnock do actually spawn along with the seatrout.If this is the case then technically they must be classed as kelts.
As far as i know ADAA do allow worming on the Ythan from the 11th February which i think is wrong given the high likelyhood of deep hooking kelts at this time of year.
I do agree with you that the opening date for seatrout needs to be changed and i would favour the 1st May given that there is only a very slim chance of fresh fish entering the river before then.

Regards
Duncan

[Rob Brownfield]

But would this assure the same statuatory season/opening dates ? I thought that the BT opening day varies in England as well, but correct me if I am wrong ?

Foiled again...I forgot that the licence says one thing, but local by-laws can see dates changed..grrrr

[Loxiafan]

I personally think it is unsporting to fish for early season finnock.
I'm not entirely certain but it is my belief that although they are immature seatrout,the Finnock do actually spawn along with the seatrout.If this is the case then technically they must be classed as kelts.

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for your comments. I was swithering whether to do it or not as those that know me will testify I am anything but an unsporting angler, fishing predominantly dry fly, and only fly-fishing. Last years T&S reports certainly inferred that Finnock fishing was acceptable in Feb through March hence my query.

My understanding of "Finnock" is a Sea Trout that has spent only a limited time in the Sea and has returned to the river either late Summer (of the year it smolted) or perhaps over the winter, some the follwing summer so are technically 1 sea winter. The Finnock in the rivers in Feb, March and April will most likely have over-wintered there from the previous year. I would doubt that all or many of them spawned being immature, but like most things in nature there is 'insurance' and some no doubt will.

A commitee member of ADAA has informed me I can do it legally, but also knows I will exercise common sense and stop if catching too many and that I will handle and release all fish carefully (using barbless flies - no bait).

To be honest I am about 60:40 against doing it still, so don't think I will. And that is with the fly. I also don't want to start a trend !

Lindsay

[Loxiafan]

...................just a thought: what is the ratio of clean spring Salmon caught on the Don to Kelts that are caught ? I'd wager much more of the latter. Thus, is it 'unsporting' to fish for Spring fish when you are most likely to catch a Kelt ? I don't think so personally, but how many even consider it ? Just tossing ideas around at how far we go to use the word "unsporting" - fishing for Grayling and catching OOS BT ?

If folks are not happy at rulings etc then raise these issues with the powers that be - it is the only way things will change for the better.

L

[Rob Brownfield]

I know folk that target Kelts on the Don early season! Excuse is they want an early bend in the rod before the springers come.

Thing is, the rules allow it, so people will do it.

[Allan Liddle]

...................just a thought: what is the ratio of clean spring Salmon caught on the Don to Kelts that are caught ? I'd wager much more of the latter. Thus, is it 'unsporting' to fish for Spring fish when you are most likely to catch a Kelt ? I don't think so personally, but how many even consider it ? Just tossing ideas around at how far we go to use the word "unsporting" - fishing for Grayling and catching OOS BT ?

If folks are not happy at rulings etc then raise these issues with the powers that be - it is the only way things will change for the better.

L

What about fishing for browns and catching out of season grayling?  For me the 'sporting' ethics lie in deliberately targeting out of season species.  That said next thing is, as you righty say, questioning the season dates themselves.
As said already, Another point to consider is why resident and sea going browns have different seasons, and in many cases different size limits?

[Loxiafan]

What about fishing for browns and catching out of season grayling?

Yep, also a prob. In Scotland where Grayling are non-native it is arguably not as big a problem ethically for some, but my own view is that Grayling along with Pike are now 'naturalised' north of the border, and are in fact an important species, and thus deserve appropriate respect. A lot of pics of Osprey's I see carrying fish have Pike in them !

The Sea Trout 'problem' does need sorted, but I think there are fisheries where there is an early spring run which perhaps justifies the 11th Feb date ?

Lindsay

[Allan Liddle]

Yup Lindsay there will always be fish that are in catchable condition outwith the 15th March to 6th October dates 'Browns' or 'Sea Trout.'