[Mike Barrio]

Not a bad idea Lindsay

I still have some GT140 #2 lines in stock and have been thinking about what to do when they run out

The downside of #0 and #1 lines is that there aren't many #0 and #1 rods out there? No reason why I can't produce the lines though

Cheers
Mike

[Loxiafan]

The downside of #0 and #1 lines is that there aren't many #0 and #1 rods out there? No reason why I can't produce the lines though

That is true.  My understanding (from what J.Lucas pondered) is that guys like me using #3 wt rods would use a #1 or #0 line for extra stealth/and possibly french nymph technique - afterall casting a #1 wt line has got to be better/easier than casting a mono leader !  The mono will defintely drag less though and will be easier to keep off the water (at short range).

The Rio LT's in the 0,1 and 2 wts are £75 !  I would imagine a more sensibly priced alternative product could be successful....with the correct marketing ! I guess a #0 would be 40g for a 30 ft section, not sure how difficult that would be to produce, or tapers (if any) ?

Cheers,

Lindsay

[Rob Brownfield]

How about you technical guru Barrio Line Boffins designing an "ultra light" trout line AFTM #0, #1 etc as an alternative/replacement to French Leader (which seems big just now).Lindsay

Or buy a Daiwa tapered surf leader at £6.99 for 5 It works beautifully as a "French Leader". Goes from 60lbs down to 15lb over a 30 or so foot length.

The Carp version is the same price and length, but 30 down to 12lb and in a clear camo green colour. This is the one I use for my version of "French Czeching"..lol

I have also used shooting head running line and this works too if not trying to go too far. I would guess this would be about a #0?

I think these commercial "French leaders" are a rip off at £7 each for a bit of tapered nylon..

[Alex Burnett]

Czech Nymphing French Leader

[Loxiafan]

I think these commercial "French leaders" are a rip off at £7 each for a bit of tapered nylon..

You're probably right there Rob but the Fish On ones are more expensive than that......and I just bought another !  These are all hand made by John Pearson (apparently he checks each knot under a microscope) and they are chemically treated to make them supple......river 'guru' JT swears by them which is good enuff for me.

Got a Hends Camou but not tried it yet, though Goolager did allright with that.

Would still like a #0 or #1 Barrio "Whisper" though 

L

[Allan Liddle]

I use the clear carp leaders as well Rob and they're ok.

But put me down for a 'Whisper' please Mike 

However i wonder if we're pushing into 'one trick pony' method here, maybe we should all pop a Tenkara outfit into the back pocket?   

[Rob Brownfield]

I was having a chat with one of my pipers last night, who is an ex Dee ghillie, and he pointed me to this video. Czech nymphing for Salmon on the Dee!

[Marc Fauvet]

hi guys,
czech, polish, french etc nymphing: you're missing the point.
repositioning the flies up or across stream is not done by casting in any conventional sense. ( a backcast, false casting etc. )
the flies are 'lobbed' to the target area from the 'dangle' back up as when performing a water haul with a fly line.
therefore, there is no need for the conventional fly line mass to pull the leader and flies towards the target area.
a fly line and even a big heavier butt section of mono is counter productive because it drags due to volume. the whole point with this type of fishing is to be in direct contact with the flies and 'recreating' a drag-free drift by leading the flies downstream with the rod tip. you can't do this properly if there's line drag.

a very good setup for this is something like 20-30m of 0,20mm nylon (in the very unlikely case a fish actually runs) and then a straight, much finer leader/tippet with droppers.
the thicker nylon is mostly for being able to break off the leader/tippet when the flies snag without risking loosing the whole line.

cheers,
marc

[Rob Brownfield]

hi guys,
czech, polish, french etc nymphing: you're missing the point.

I am with Jan Simaz on this one, when fishing lighter flies in shallower water, the leader needs some weight to it to help "lob" the flies upstream. The thickest part of the leader is held off the water by raising the rod high as the flies come back, but helps impart energy to turn the flies over, which may be very small, light nymphs.

When Czech nymphing, and I am using "proper" weighted nymphs, then most of the time, the taper of the leader outside the rod tip is insignificant, but if I wish to fish further out in the run, the taper starts to come into its own. Mr Simaz explains this very well in his DVD, far better than I can, but again, most of the leader is off the water, only the thinner line near the indicator being in contact with the water, so no drag but more significantly, little "drag back" towards the angler, unlike with a fly line.

[Alex Burnett]

Hi Rob

Sorry I am with Marc on this one, having fished with 30ft leaders & 6" of fly line
in the South African Streams several times over the last 3 years I can tell you it
is not leader weight but technique that lobs the flies forward.
The idea is to have as little line drag as possible so as to present a realistic fly.

Casting or more truthfully lobbing up stream & fishing the pockets as the fly dead
drifts back towards you. Fishing either Nymph style or dry fly. Largest tippet being 5X.


Excuse the fat git in the picture but you can see the fly line is inside the rip rings & there
is not slack line, basically keep contact with the flies at all times & lift into any stop if using nymphs
or any submersion of the flies if using a dry nymph combo.



If I remember rightly I took 5 or 6 fish out of this short stretch of water.

Alex
 

[Marc Fauvet]

here's a great tutorial on the lobbing technique from Jim Williams 

http://eat-sleep-fish.co.uk/content/2012/10/fly-casting-jim-williams

[Marc Fauvet]

you can see the fly line is inside the rip rings
 

which is yet another point of having a much longer leader and the fly line completely on the reel. if there's any fly line in the rod rings, as soon as any tension is removed from the line tip, the fly line's mass will pull it all down towards the reel and flies up to the rod tip. pia...

cheers,
marc

[Rob Brownfield]

Casting or more truthfully lobbing up stream & fishing the pockets as the fly dead
drifts back towards you. Fishing either Nymph style or dry fly. Largest tippet being 5X.Alex
 

Hi, so this is the bit I am stuck on. There is no way on earth you can "lob" a size 18 dry fly

There has to be weight in the leader to allow the fly to travel. I would liken it to casting a size 4/0 Pike Deer Hair Popper on a 3 weight... the fly does not have the weight to be "lobbed" and pull the line forward 30 feet and the line does not have the weight to propel the fly forward.

I fully accept that heavy flies can and are capable of being lobbed on a "light" leader, I do it myself, but I cannot for the life of me see how micro nymphs and drys are "lobbed".

All the instructional DVD's I have on this method show a "cast" being performed with a tapered leader. Here is a clip from one of them I have which I just found on YouTube

He speaks of "fine" leaders, but on the DVD box he shows a tapered leader that has a "fine tippet" but a butt thats around 15-20lb breaking strain.

Also, many of the websites on the method clearly show a thick "heavy" butt.



So, can anyone please clarify

[Marc Fauvet]

Hi, so this is the bit I am stuck on. There is no way on earth you can "lob" a size 18 dry fly

So, can anyone please clarify

that's why it's called nymphing, not dry-flying... 

cheers,
marc

[Alex Burnett]

Hi, so this is the bit I am stuck on. There is no way on earth you can "lob" a size 18 dry fly

I will try to get Korrie Broos to come on and explain...but I can assure you you can lob a
size 22 midge pattern, as I have said I have done it & caught fish.

The technique is to place your thumb along the top of the handle & imagine there is a small 1" ring
on top of you rod "where a hook holder would go but on the opposite side" & you have to put your
thumb through the hole. Very much a wrist action & using the drag on the fly as it goes behind you
to add tension, bit like forming a "D" with a double hander.

Hope that sounds less complicated to you guys than it does to me reading it back.


Alex