[Liam Stephen]

Folks

Whilst at a local fishery yesterday I decided to try and help a novice.  He had been handed a 9ft 6in 7/8wt rod with 8lb straight through mono and a daddy long legs!!   I had a few casts and struggled a bit, the rod was like a lamp post.

Surely it would have been more beneficial to the novice if he had been handed a lighter rod 5/6wt, a reel and line that balanced the rod and a tapered leader?  

Am I missing something? Why do some fisheries set beginners up with heavy and unbalanced trout outfits?  

Liam

[Ben Dixon]

Folks

He had been handed a 9ft 6in 7/8wt rod with 8lb straight through mono and a daddy long legs!!  I had a few casts and struggled a bit, the rod was like a lamp post.

Because there's 5lb "trout" in there, Sonny.  You need an 8wt to control and land  them and with anything less than 8lb mono you'll get broken.

Surely it would have been more beneficial to the novice if he had been handed a lighter rod 5/6wt, a reel and line that balanced the rod and a tapered leader? 

You don't need a tapered leader, that's just a rip off and a 5wt rod is for the burn.

Hope this helps ( I may post something sensible later)

Ben

[Alex Burnett]

Ben_D trying out his new fly rod for 5Lb Trout!!!!



 

Alex

[Paul Garrigan]

Because there's 5lb "trout" in there, Sonny.  You need an 8wt to control and land  them and with anything less than 8lb mono you'll get broken.

You don't need a tapered leader, that's just a rip off and a 5wt rod is for the burn.

Hope this helps ( I may post something sensible later)

Ben

Interested in this Ben. Do you really never use a tapered leader? Have I been wasting my cash on needless fishing accessories? Surely I haven't been hoodwinked by the tackle trade again!   Do you not find it aids turnover and presentation?

Paul

Sack that question.....I missed the "I may post something sensible later" bit. 

[Noel Kelly]

Ben_D trying out his new fly rod for 5Lb Trout!!!!



 

Alex

Iain goo wants to know where can he order one of those Alex?

[Alex Burnett]

Noel

Ben_D will probably tell you later...I think he has them in the shop!!!!

 

Alex

[Barry Robertson]

Folks

Whilst at a local fishery yesterday I decided to try and help a novice.  He had been handed a 9ft 6in 7/8wt rod with 8lb straight through mono and a daddy long legs!!   I had a few casts and struggled a bit, the rod was like a lamp post.

Surely it would have been more beneficial to the novice if he had been handed a lighter rod 5/6wt, a reel and line that balanced the rod and a tapered leader?  

Am I missing something? Why do some fisheries set beginners up with heavy and unbalanced trout outfits?  

Liam

Have you turned into another lightweight toff Liam?
Rainbow trout fishing often requires alof of diff techniques and lots of diff scenarios could come up and personally i think a 7 wt rod is spot on! Try landing blues all day on a 5wt on a Di 7 !

[Ben Dixon]

For beginners something lighter is a good idea, softer rod with an overweight line helps to get a feel for the cast. A lot of folk choose things the wrong way around, start wth the rod based upon often bad advice regarding what sort of rod is needed to land a certain species of fish.  Tippet and hook strength determines how fast a fish can be bullied into the net more than the rod, bully a fish too hard on light tippet with a stiff rod and it is quite likely that a break will occur somewhere.

Baz makes a good point about heavy lines & flies, but this is not about the fish so much as the gear you are throwing at it.  Ideally, you'd have a pokey rod for throwing big flies (or multi fly rigs) on the heavier lines neded to carry them and another set up for fishing smaller flies.  It is perfectly possble with the right leaderset up to fish small light flies off a heavy line with the right leader set up (which would include a tapered leader) but then there is still the issue of having fine tippet on a stiff pokey rod.  A rod rated for a #6 line would be my choice for small stillwater work if I had to have only one.

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

My first fly rod was a fibreglass 7/8 weight coupled with an 8 weight WF fast sinker.

Bit extreme at first glance but I started fly fishing on Walthamstow Reservoirs and lure pulling was the way to get the fish.

The glass rod, being soft and easy to cast, plus the fast sinker that cut through the wind meant I could get a reasonable line out pretty much on the first day of trying. When I bought my first floater, a WF Cortland 444 in #8, I struggled a bit as the cast "felt slower".

For a big, wind swept reservoir, I reckon that set up was a good starting point.

A majority of modern stillwater rods are made for distance casting, and I believe this hampers beginners. I also believe there is a big difference in the often quoted "7/8 weight for stillwaters trout" from 20-30 years ago to a modern, fast taper, powerful 7 weight of today. Things change slowly in fly fishing and modern gear can be "stepped down" and used for stillwater fish. This can be seen at Mikes every week. Modern 3, 4 and 5 weight rods can land big fish quickly.

[Derek Roxborough]

 I have fished 4 & 5 wt rods for many years now and i have never found it a drawback , I once had to take some children fishing and an uncle had bought them all 8wt rods on the recommendation of an edinburgh tackle shop, these were 8,9 & 10 year old kids, it was a hellova day because the uncle was a much loved guy but with no idea of highland hill lochs,it was like teaching and helping these kids with clothes poles, I got the impression that the shop had unloaded some of its unwanted stock, I am teacninh my G/daughter (8 yrs) with a 4wt 7ft rod and she is handling it no bother, I do have a 7/8 wt rod for chucking pike lures but for general loch fishing I use a 4 or a 5 wt, easgach 1

[Kevin Moss]

When you renting out rods to many beginners each year at a fishery you cant account for every anglers personal preference of size or weights.Then you need to account for the excitement of a beginner catching his first fish,haul it in as hard as possible the word "Play" doesnt come into it.Break offs are frequent as are rod breaks.

If all fisheries catered for each  it would cost them a fortune and they wouldnt be in business long and fish would all have ear piercings from lost hooks and strands of gut trailing behind them.Taking a lesson is different as they are supervised and more individual but fishing and hiring a rod is far different.

Thats my take on it.

[Iain Goolager]

Hi Kev?

I think that if someone is a beginner then they have no real benchmark as to what a fly rod should feel, weigh or cast like so theoretically a fishery manager could select a 6 wt outfit for his loan/ rental kit.
It might also be said that if a guy is trying to catch his first fish then it can be assumed that his casting experience is nil to limited so using sunk, or should I say fast sinking lines, and weighted fly/s is not a good idea anyway.
As long as the line is sized to allow the caster to feel the rod bending then that should be sufficient.
I think that broken leaders are primarily more down to poor knots when dealing with beginners than anything else - tying an overlooped double grunter cupboard knot in any line is going to leave a fish with a fly in it.

Have to go.

Iain

[Kevin Moss]

Hi Iain
generaly we use 7 lines but they are all floaters for the reason you describe.Most who hire have fished before and teaching we use other rods and lines more suited to someone who just want to have a go.We do supply smaller rods and lines for younger folk though.
The abuse that these rods take need to be strong enough to take it otherwise you would be paying a fortune to replace rod after rod and when we do get a rod break its never the anglers fault and there is never an offer to pay for it to be replaced.
So you have to look at it from a business point of view aswell and not just from experienced views of the way we would like to fish and tackle we would want to use.
When we hire a car we would all like a range rover and when we get a fiesta we have to just accept it.

[Mike Barrio]

Must agree with Kevin, the treatment that hire gear gets has to be seen to be believed sometimes

My hire rods are 9 ft #5, with a #6 floating line on them, which gives anglers a better chance of a fish at Haddo than a heavier outfit. Different kit will suit different venues of course. Flies, braided loops and fly lines get the worst treatment in my experience, I have had quite a few lines with wind knots that have been left in and then tightened on a fish, try to get that out afterwards without leaving a kink in the line but it is all part of the fun of running a fishery

Cheers
Mike

[Andy Wren]

My first fly rod was a fibreglass 7/8 weight coupled with an 8 weight WF fast sinker.

Bit extreme at first glance but I started fly fishing on Walthamstow Reservoirs and lure pulling was the way to get the fish.

The glass rod, being soft and easy to cast, plus the fast sinker that cut through the wind meant I could get a reasonable line out pretty much on the first day of trying. When I bought my first floater, a WF Cortland 444 in #8, I struggled a bit as the cast "felt slower".

For a big, wind swept reservoir, I reckon that set up was a good starting point.

A majority of modern stillwater rods are made for distance casting, and I believe this hampers beginners. I also believe there is a big difference in the often quoted "7/8 weight for stillwaters trout" from 20-30 years ago to a modern, fast taper, powerful 7 weight of today. Things change slowly in fly fishing and modern gear can be "stepped down" and used for stillwater fish. This can be seen at Mikes every week. Modern 3, 4 and 5 weight rods can land big fish quickly.

Nice to know there are others who have fished that scenic North London Mecca of flyfishing.You were a little lighter line than me .Mine was a Fibatube 10 footer for #9 shooting heads,things have changed incredibly since  then.

[Derek Roxborough]

Kevin I drive a Fiesta and it's one of the best cars I have ever had, 1.4tdci, 59 mile to the gallon, I have no desire to have a Range rover, it brings to mind the comparison between hedge hogs and 4x4 owners, I will leave it at that 
easgach 1

[Hamish Young]

Kevin I drive a Fiesta and it's one of the best cars I have ever had, 1.4tdci, 59 mile to the gallon, I have no desire to have a Range rover, it brings to mind the comparison between hedge hogs and 4x4 owners, I will leave it at that 
easgach 1

Forgive me, but I really don't understand this post  ??? 
For once, it would seem, automotive analogy's are wasted on me 

[josh]

My opinion on tapered leaders on stillwaters is that they are an absoloute waste of money!
I fish stillwaters nearly every week and i tried tapered leaders a few times and found they gave me no advantage even on the dry fly. I also fish the rivers and tapered leaders i would say are necessary for there but not stillwater.

And too the weight of rod and line begginers have bairly if ever used a fly rod so wouldnt probably even notice the defference as i never when i was using a 7/8 then going too my grandas #5. I would just say its all too do with  time and learning from people as you go along for casting youtube helped me with my overhead cast and now im just getting the hang of double hauling all my info ive had off youtube. And tippet size doesnt really matter as most fisheries dont want you using anything below 6lb as you get alot of break offs with any tippet below that.

[Noel Kelly]

Kevin I drive a Fiesta and it's one of the best cars I have ever had, 1.4tdci, 59 mile to the gallon, I have no desire to have a Range rover, it brings to mind the comparison between hedge hogs and 4x4 owners, I will leave it at that 
easgach 1

I drive a 4x4. Would be interested in this comparison?

[Jim Eddie]

well when I heard the joke it was BMW drivers, so insert your own make

What's the difference between a 4 x 4 and a Hedgehog ?

On a 4 x 4 the pricks are on the inside 

 

Jim
 

[Rob Brownfield]

Nice to know there are others who have fished that scenic North London Mecca of flyfishing.You were a little lighter line than me .Mine was a Fibatube 10 footer for #9 shooting heads,things have changed incredibly since  then.

Scenic indeed!..lol. But some hard fighting Rainbows made the call irresistable.

[Rob Brownfield]

What's the difference between a 4 x 4 and a Hedgehog ?

On a 4 x 4 the pricks are on the inside 

Hmmm..and we are also the ones pulling the postie out the ditch in the winter so that your letters get through, or giving the local midwife a lift to a remote farm house, or helping tow the local bus up the hill near Torphins because the snow was casuing it problems, or volunteering for the local 4x4 rescue folk who help out the emergency services when they need 4x4's.....

[Jim Eddie]

Rob its a joke , like I said you can substitute BMW for 4 x 4, do not take it personally 

 

Jim

[Rob Brownfield]

I would rather exchange it for Audi drivers

[Hamish Young]

I thought Noel had an Audi ??? 

H