[Graeme Inglis]

Hmm Eddie, long casts is a relative statement, what do you consider a long cast?  Personally (and I'm not the best) I have seen some excellent longer casts with a switch rod by those who can.

Graeme

[Eddie Sinclair]

Graeme,
I will ask Ben to answer that as it was him that told me I was pushing the switch too far during the casting day. Maybe it is my technique but I certainly could not get the switch rod that I was using to go to the distance that I would normally use with my 14 or 15 footer.

Eddie.

[Graeme Inglis]

Eddie, Neither can I, but they are not meant to replace bigger rods, but try using a 13' to 15' rod on a small to medium sized river, then try a switch rod and it's then that their flexibility comes into its own.  They are called switch rods because you can switch from a single handed cast to a 2 handed cast, you wouldn't try casting a 15' rod single handed would you.  They are also built to use lighter lines than a 13 to 15' rod, on average a 5 to 8 weight, if you want to have a short rod to throw a heavier line then your getting into skagit territory.

Graeme

[Eddie Sinclair]

Graeme,
I do not want to go down the Skagit route, way too heavy for me. I completely agree with your assessment on the use of the switch rod. The reason I tried one with the rest of the guys at Haddo is because of one pool in particular where I fish regularly  :z18for sea trout and I was hoping that I could find a light double hander to make life easier for me. I was not getting the distance that I was hoping for to cover the situation that I was faced with, however if I was going to fish small to medium rivers more often then it would definitely be my first choice, I just cant justify the cost for a rod that I will have very little use for.

Eddie.

[Ben Dixon]

Hi Graeme,

I use mine as a short and more sensitive two hander, never one handed.  I don't get a huge amount of use out of it as I really enjoy fishing a single hander for salmon but there are times where nothing else would really fit the bill.  For example smaller waters when the river is up and I need heavier gear than can be easily managed on a single handed rod but where a proper DH rod would be cumbersome and numb.  Other time I tend to use is on larger rivers in a low water where I am using very small flies and light tippets at a range that is on the edge for single handed Speys.  I find fishing Speys on a 10' #8 at 25 yards plus all day hard work so tend to use the switch in those situations too.
What rod & line combination have you found that works both single and double handed?  I've always found that any line that gives a good feel two handed is too heavy to comfortably move around single handed for any length of time and anything light enough not to be tiresome single handed feels like casting fresh air when used two handed.  I think a lot of the effort comes from the fact that switches are generally fairly long levers, the same weight of line on a 9' rod would be less tiresome if used single handed.

Cheers

Ben

[Graeme Inglis]

Hi Ben,
Like you I use my switch rods for spey casting, I was just making the point of why they were introduced.  In saying that I have cast single handed with my Batson without too much effort since its only using a 5/6 360gr shooting head.
Like you I steer well clear of skagit! 

Graeme

[Marc Fauvet]

They are called switch rods because you can switch from a single handed cast to a 2 handed cast

hi Graeme,
that's actually just a too often repeated false misinterpretation of what Jerry Burkheimer (originator of the switch rod idea) designed them for: a shorter DH rod to be 'switched' from spey casts to overhead casts, the latter more often used for say, casting long lines on a salt water beach.
further, there was never any mention that both types of cast would be efficient with the same rod and the same line which is just common sense.

of course, rods don't come with instructions and anyone is free to cast them whichever way they want. they're just rods after all.
here's Steve Rajeff casting single hand and hauling with an 18 footer...  



cheers,
marc

[Graeme Inglis]

Thanks for that Marc, ye gods, he must have strong wrists!

Graeme

[Marc Fauvet]

yeah, he's the American version of Hamish...    

[Ben Dixon]

hi Graeme,
that's actually just a too often repeated false misinterpretation of what Jerry Burkheimer (originator of the switch rod idea) designed them for: a shorter DH rod to be 'switched' from spey casts to overhead casts, the latter more often used for say, casting long lines on a salt water beach.
further, there was never any mention that both types of cast would be efficient with the same rod and the same line which is just common sense.

Never heard that version of the origin of switch rods Marc, did Burkheimer believe that existing shorter two handed rods were not able to make both over head and Spey casts?  The original thinking behind them seems to be very different depending upon who you ask and, in which part of the world.

Unless you are talking about a Skagit or something (I do have one for my switch), then I would cast exactly the same line over head as I used for Spey casting with mine.  The rod makes both types of cast efficiently with a Barrio Switch or Rio Scandi Short or AFS but whether overhead or Spey, I always use two hands on it though.  I did think about using it for overhead casting when pollock fishing with a T11 Outbound cut to 33' from the rock.  The rod threw the line really well, probably easier to manage than on a 909 Helios and took a clouser 40 yards with less effort but I couldn't bring myself to use it on the rocks.

Cheers

Ben

[Graeme Inglis]

In truth, like many things the true origin of these type of things can be vague, I have a friend who built a switch rod before any one here had heard of them.  It was just the rod he needed, he didnt call it anything just used it.

Graeme

[Marc Fauvet]

did Burkheimer believe that existing shorter two handed rods were not able to make both over head and Spey casts? 

hey Ben,
as you know all too well, the US DH world is constantly reinventing (for marketing purposes and the incessant need for fads, all mixed in with a serious dose of wilful ignorance) something that was invented long ago, almost always adding preposterous notions and explanations of how spey casting works !

how the hell should i know whats going on in them-thar  brains ?! 
marc

[Ben Dixon]

Pleased you got that off your chest Marc but I couldn't possibly agree with that in public so I'll say nothing:z4

That said, I do rather like Skagit lines, there should be some credit for them at least although I don't buy the Skagitonian physics that accompanies them.

Ben

[Steven Sinclair]

Here is what I have never understood about "switch" rods.

To me they are nothing more than "clever" marketing.  I have had a play with a few of them here in Malaysia (I still cant figure out any real justification for their use here) and I really don't see any difference to the 10' 6" trout rod I fished with a long fighting butt or the 12" 7/8" Low Water Salmon rod which was gifted to me by my Old Man over 15 years ago  ??? ??? ???

I really do think that they are a case of reinventing the wheel.  Am I going mad or is this not something we have always done and just never got around to giving it a fancy new fangled name?

 

[Marc Fauvet]

Ben, there's absolutely nothing wrong with either shorter rods or shorter lines or lines designed to hold very heavy flies and sink tips, quite the contrary. they all fit a need and that's great ! 
i have and use and really like. (what i have a hard time understanding though is why shorten the upper handle so much. this forces the user to adopt a hand stance that might feel uncomfortable when a longer handle leaves more options without affecting the rod's action.

anyhow, it's just the confusion that the general public can't help but fall into about it all that makes it mad. a fantastic display of this mass hysteria on all levels, whether it be about kit or how to use it can be found on the Speypages forum. yikes ! 
marc