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Ben_D

Switch Rods
« on: April 26, 2012, 19:51:34 PM »
Seeing more & more of these things, what's everyone using them for and how are you casting them?  Single handed, double handed, fishing for trout, silver stuff or using them in the sea?

Cheers

Ben

Rob Brownfield

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 22:49:52 PM »
You know the rod, 10' 8" 5 weight
Line, Elixor 5/6 weight switch
Rell, Okuma Integrity for the weight
Casting exclusively Switch/Jump Role/Spey/Underhand...so no single handed at all.
Used it for Sea Trout and Salmon when the Dee and Don were showing their bones.
Will be using it for trout in heavy water.

So far I am loving it...wish i had discovered them earlier. I also went and got a 12' 6" salmon rod as I am taken by the finesse but control of lighter, shorter double handers.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Ben_D

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 23:40:36 PM »
Thanks Rob.

When you say
Quote
Will be using it for trout in heavy water.
I presume you mean for swinging streamers from two handed Spey casts?

Have you used it much for two handed over head casts?  I'm going to give mine a bash in the sea this year for pollock and maybe bass with two handed over heads.

Cheers

Ben

Rob Brownfield

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 08:11:23 AM »
When you say  I presume you mean for swinging streamers from two handed Spey casts?

Shhhhh!  :X2

As for two handed overhead...That Elixor line is way too heavy for that so I need to try something a little lighter. I wonder how a 5 weight GT140 would work...experiment time me thinks.

If I had an 8 weight model I might give the sea fishing a bash with it, using either one of Airflos Striper two handed lines or a Rio Outbound. I think the 5 weight I have just would not have the lifting power for Pollock to keep them out the kelp. I can see the advantage of an 11 foot rod to keep the back cast high over rocks etc.

Looks like Cass might be coming back from the US with a suitcase full of blanks again!
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Ben_D

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 12:01:37 PM »
Gt 140 should be fine on it for single handed overhead work as will any other #5 trout line, will suck for two handed use though, will feel as if you are casting fresh air.  Elixir is lumpy overhead, try it with a two handed overhead cast and ity will feel better.

I put a T11 custom cut outbound on my Helios 117 a few weeks back and had a chuck with it two handed over head and the whole line went in a single chuck so I'm definitely going to give it a bash for the pollock.  Same as you, not sure about the lifting power of the blank.  It has stopped 14lb fresh run salmon in their tracks but the initial dive from a big pollock is something different altogether.

Cheers

Ben


Rob Brownfield

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 12:26:57 PM »
R.B.Meiser sell a dedicated Saltwater switch, but it is only 9' 9" long!!..oh and a price tag of $605-$705, but you do get a cold saltwater shooting head to go with them thrown in with the rod.


The 6/7 is rated for "fish to 25 pounds" and the 11/12 weight...150 pounds!! Is that enough power? ;)

Just noticed that the blanks are $155 so not too bad after all.
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Iain Cameron

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 13:13:53 PM »
Seeing more & more of these things, what's everyone using them for and how are you casting them?  Single handed, double handed, fishing for trout, silver stuff or using them in the sea?

good question. I've recently bought an 11foot 6 weight switch rod.
What is it for... well, ask me at the end of this season and i'll tell you what actually took place.

For now, the intention was to have a lightweight double-handed rod, sitting somewhere in between 5 weight single handers and 9 weight 14' salmon rod. I didn't have anything in my rod collection that was between these 2 types. (well, I did have a 7/8 single hander, but i never bonded with it and have sold it).

Uses?? Various vague ones - mucking about with double handed casting styles; having something for slightly bigger/heavier water, but still targeting sea trout/brownies/grilse/summer salmon. And I just kinda fancied having one.

I don't intend to use if for overhead casting - however, I've already found that in a downstream right to left wind when I'm on the left bank, that as a right-hander, i can use two hands to cast over/off of my left shoulder, safely keeping the flies downwind of my head. that's a bonus... but the slightly heavier lines I prefer for d-handed casted could potentially overload the rod wen overhead casting (that of course, can be used as an advantage to get a quick load & shoot).

I do intend to use if for double-handed casting primarily - and i expect it to be very useful in river locations where overhead casting is impossible due to banks/trees/obstructions.  That'll be mostly downstream wets & wee streamers, targeting sea trout/brownies/anything else obliging enough to bite. I spent lots of time doing single-handed spey casting type stuff with a 5 weight last season, so this is an extension of that.

Saltwater? ask me at the end of the season; i've nothing planned. yet.

cheers
iain

Rob Brownfield

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 13:30:54 PM »
I found this chappie doing some saltwater Switch fishing, but he had a lionk to his blog. I thing it is a great blog full of information on spey/double handed casting, switch rods, and so on.

http://www.yuenmah.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/why-switch-rod.html
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Mike Barrio

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 18:32:13 PM »
Hi guys :z16

I have my own ideas on this ...... but what do you think makes a good switch line?

Best wishes
Mike
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Rob Brownfield

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 22:45:12 PM »
I have my own ideas on this ...... but what do you think makes a good switch line?


No idea yet as I have not been switching for that long.

However, i will ask the question and I am interested in the reply.....would it be possible to create a single line with different length bellies?

There have been a few occasions where on one pool I have had to fish off the bank with bushes close to the waters edge, so a very short, almost Skagit type belly would have been nice. However, the very next pool I could wade and had plenty of room, but the wind was in my face, so I wanted a longer head that allowed me to do a "proper" switch )Jump roll) to give ne a biy more cotrol and punch.

So, a line that had running line a rear taper to a loop, then different length bellies, to another loop, and then the various density tips.

Would it work or would there be too much hinging?

I know you can get Cheaters, but I got the impression that was more about maintaining the same D loop when wading deep or fishing off the bank rather than changing the size of the loop or allowing different casts.

Actually, do I really need my idea? Or should I be able to cope with wading/off the bank/big D, small D off of one line?
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Mike Barrio

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 23:12:50 PM »
Ben will be able to answer this better than me, I can't see you wanting to change lines, bellies, or tips etc for each pool Rob, I would imagine that using different casts would make more sense?

Perhaps something like this?



Cheers
Mike
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Ben_D

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 23:53:15 PM »
Hi Rob,

What you are looking for does exist.  It is simply a reel with looped running line and different length heads, the Scandinavians go in for long cut heads, short cut heads and stuff in between for the same rod for different pools on some of their home rivers. 

If the loops were right then it would not hinge, Rio's older multi tip lines had a rear taper looped to a belly that looped to tips and they did not hinge appreciably. 

The cheater thing with Skagits is to allow a comfortable ratio between rod length and line length to be maintained.  Moving around 45' of line on a 15' rod is the same as moving around 36' of line on a 12' rod, putting cheaters into a Skagit set up allows you a familiar feel with a Skagit on all your rods or so I'm told! 

In terms of learning to cope with winds / banks / pools with one line then ideally yes but, there are times when I will change heads for pools.  For example when I was up on the Connon last month there is a particular pool that called for left hand up with heavy gear wading so deep that I was almost floating downstream.  My usual Mackenzie head was too long for comfort so I changed to an AFS tracker which is substantially shorter.  I then moved pools and needed more range but was only knee deep so went back to the Mackenzie head which suited that pool just right.  I could have fished either pool with either head but changing made life much easier.  I will often (frequently) change tips whilst fishing a pool, sometimes heads too.

Bring your rods (switch & DHD) to the bothy on Sunday and we'll have a look and see if we can get some cast cobbled together that will make things easier on the high bank.

I know I'm usually fishing a floater on my switch on the river and the most I am ever doing is changing tips really.  If I ever needed real depth in places where I fish my switch I'd use a Skagit short and T tips rather than a full sink head, this situation occurs very rarely.  Places I tend to use it are not places that require big throws and are often quite tight for space.  What I'm looking for is something that will carry heavy tips & small tubes when needed and also present a small fly well on a long tapered leader.  A Short head that requires minimal space to work, loads up quick for accurate close range stuff that will also hit 25 yards with ease when required.  As I'm often using it close up, I prefer an integrated Scandi style head rather than a looped connection to the running line.


Cheers

Ben


Mike Barrio

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2012, 00:06:43 AM »
See ..... I told you Ben would be able to answer this better than me! :z4

Cheers
Mike
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Iain Cameron

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 07:04:40 AM »
See ..... I told you Ben would be able to answer this better than me! :z4

aye.. what Ben said...

Mike, I've not had enough time to play with the switch rod yet to give you an informed answer, sorry. here's some rambles for now...

My gut feel so far is that the switch concept of seamlessly going from overhead to double handed casting is kinda flawed in practice, nice in theory. it *feels* to me that a single line to allow you to do both these things would be too much of a compromise, giving you a line that wouldn't quite deliver 100% on either front.

I'm basing this on needing to have a consistent loading point. With the current line (Beulah Elixir) i've got matched to the rod:

- for d/handed spey styles,  the loading point is with about 6-18" of the running line (and all the belly& tapers) outside the rod tip. and that feels about right.

- for over head casting-handed, you have to bring a chunk of the head (i'll lump the rear taper/belly/front taper together) inside the rod rings or else it threatens to overload. Now that is OK, it works, but it looks/feels a bit lumpy because of the thick belly/long front taper profile, the reverse of a 'normal' WF shooting head, kinda. (Note, based on very few minutes of actual Ohead casting so far!)

My instinct then is to decide which style of casting is most required and get the line (or line & head combo) most suitable.

For me, that's veering towards treating the switch rod as a light, short double-handed rod for spey style casting. For that, I'd seek a line that allows me to load the rod in tight spots (not big open pools with loads of loop forming water behind me).

It might be that a running line and a combo of heads of different weights would work.
More likely, in practice, and given that I know reasonably well the nature of the places I'm usually fishing, I'll end up with one ideal line for D/handed styles (and bumble along with it if I need to switch to O'head for a few minutes). And a different line for the days/ situations where I'd expect to be overhead casting the bulk of the time.

Heh, we need a reversible head... thin long taper and short fat belly... put the belly (and hence the mass) at the back for D/H, put the belly at the front for O/Head... when the taper is at the front, it smooths down the power transition; at the back it becomes a kinda running line for the belly. there's a silly thought...

Mike - i've also spooled up a heavier head for the switch rod, but due to dirty brown water and rain & other stuff, not yet had a play. will drop you some more thoughts on it later.

cheers
iain



Ben_D

Re: Switch Rods
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2012, 00:38:00 AM »
All makes perfect sense to me Iain.

Cheers
Ben

 




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