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Hamish Young

Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« on: March 15, 2012, 19:59:01 PM »
Folks,

I have my own view (which I will share) but first I would be very interested to see some debate on the topic and find out what the 'forums' view is on the letter published in the April issue of T&S by (I think) Mike Thornton with regard to Sunday fishing for Brown Trout on the Don.

It's on page 26.

H :z3
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ;)

Ben_D

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 20:14:38 PM »
Sunday fishing - Absolutely.  It is an old Scottish Church thing and being an atheist I find not be able to fish on a Sunday (for this reason) almost offensive. 

Mr Thornton also seems to think that salmon cannot be caught on a dry fly, not sure that I agree with this assertion, I've done it as have several others I know.  I share some of the concern re the bailiffing on Sundays but paying anglers on the water tends to put off those up to no good so I firmly believe that anglers on the water legally on a Sunday is a good thing.  There are a number of beats that have allowed Sunday fishing for some time now, a good thing IMO.

Not so sure about salmon fishing on a Sunday, up here where there are so many ghillied rivers Sunday fishing would not really work without a fair price hike.

Cheers

Ben

Noel kelly

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2012, 20:53:55 PM »
I don't buy magazines anymore so could some kind soul stick up the letter please?

Loxiafan

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 21:01:39 PM »
Saw the letter, the guy always seems to have something to moan about - he fair laid in to ADAA in a previous issue (August 2011) about stocking Parkhill, but didn't acknowledge any of the positive work they do ! Sure, I would prefer genetic Don stock where stocking is concerned, but he didn't even suggest that possibility. You know, 'gene flow' is not always a bad thing in nature...  :roll I would imagine some Sea Trout (which are really Brown Trout) from natal waters other than the Don, actually do naturally spawn in the Don ? Is there an exclusive 'Don strain' ??

Regarding the question, I am all for Sunday fishing for Brown Trout and don't see his argument at all. It was a joy to fish runs and pools that hadn't been 'trawled' through by flying C's ! It was nice to meet other genuine trout anglers too. And it is my day off. Apparently, for ADAA waters, the Sunday fishing has acted as an effective deterent. If unscrupulous 'rogue' anglers are using Sunday trout fishing as a cloak to target migratory species then that is a whole other issue as far as I am concerned, and a worrying one at that.....but does that happen en masse ?

I am certain that most Brown Trout anglers catching a migratory species would return it. Perhaps all Sunday fishing should be C+R to avoid any 'iffy' Sea Trout getting chapped - doesn't affect me as they all go back to play. Would prefer not to have limitations on tactics but if I had to fish dry fly to please the likes of Mr. Thornton, let's just say I woundn't moan about it half as much as he seem to !


Scotland is a secular country, like it or not, and the religious argument should not come in to it IMO. I respect the opinions of those that disagree, but they should simply choose not to fish and let the rest of us get on with legal sport.

Lindsay

danbruce

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 21:18:26 PM »
Unfortunately i have not picked up Aprils T&S so i am not sure if Mr Thornton is for or against fishing for Brown trout on a sunday.
How ever my opinion on this is that Sunday fishing on the Don was what sealed the deal for my joining the ADAA. I often work quite long hours during the week and saturday which means sunday is the only day i have an option for a full days fishing on a regular basis.
Baliffs do a good job on patroling the river but surely having paying anglers out on a sunday would only help deter those up to no go. I know that the majority of anglers on here have no intention of keeping Brown trout they catch and i for one don't feel the need to keep any fish i catch (how ever few and far between they are) so i cant see having an extra days fishing would not have too much of an effect on the number of trout in the river.

Dan

Ben_D

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 21:57:48 PM »

I am certain that most Brown Trout anglers catching a migratory species would return it. Perhaps all Sunday fishing should be C+R to avoid any 'iffy' Sea Trout getting chapped

Lindsay

Agreed  :z16

Ben

Andy Finlay

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 22:31:40 PM »
I sincerely hope the Aberdeenshire council open up their waters to Sunday fishing as well. Most people work all week and weekends are the only chance to fish.

Fisher

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2012, 23:07:55 PM »
Many years ago ADAA had a problem with poaching on Sundays mainly at the Lower Parkhill beat so it was opened up for sunday fishing on a fly only basis and because genuine anglers were on the river this discouraged the poachers.

Unfortunately poaching has in recent years spread to other beats, so last year we opened up most of our Don beats to sunday fishing on a fly only basis on an experimental basis. Not only was this well received by the membership but we also saw a significant reduction in poaching. Our members record their catches on our online reporting system and last year 90% of all brown trout caught were returned safely to the river by members on a purely voluntary basis. This covers all 7 days a week and not just sundays.

Compare this to the poachers who were killing everything they caught, it must actually be more beneficial for our members to  fish Sundays, as the largest proportion of fish caught will be safely returned to the river. Also as Dan says it now gives those who are busy working during the week the opportunity to enjoy a day out on the river.

I know from speaking to the river superintendent that the bailiffs are happy to see bonae fidae anglers out fishing for trout on a sunday as they have also had a drop in the number of call outs to deal with the poaching that was taking place in past years.

If Mr Thornton is unhappy then let him be as miserable as he wants but we have no apology to make for opening up the river for Sunday fishing for Brown Trout as it does more good than harm as we see it.  Obviously he is ignorant about what actually goes on in the river so perhaps this posting will enlighten him a little bit.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 23:23:31 PM by Fisher »

Allan Liddle

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2012, 09:56:22 AM »
All valid points above especially regarding the self policing issue.  Ghillies need a day off too so often are not present on a Sunday at the river often leaving poaching activities a 'free run'.

Sunday trout fishing works on other waters (eg Tay, Tummel, Clyde) so why not the Don?

Sadly there is still a wee bit of 'anti-trout' feeling amongst the salmon fraternity and they are, in some cases, treated with contempt.  Vermin trout has, sadly, been stated to me on a very famous venue very recently.  Get them out as they prey on all youg salmon or salmon eggs, compete with parr food and drastically reduce salmon number, or potential salmon numbers on migratory waters.
Not sure of this but perhaps there may be a wee agenda behind the original letter?

Or is it simply a case of maintaining 'traditional' fishing values (ie no Sunday angling) because it's 'always been this way'?

Personally i am in great favour of Sunday fishing.  Modern lifestyles determine Sunday is often the only free time many have to enjoy thier sport with in the North East fisheries often the only places open.
As long as the access is controlled correctly Sunday fishing can offer a fantastic opportunity for waters to gain maximum income (ie trout anglers gain access to water all too often closed to trout anglers who can be free to roam beats for non-mortage prices.  Some of these venues would undoubtedly throw up some fantastic sport with some eye bulging specimens)

Allan
 

Hamish Young

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2012, 20:03:04 PM »
Must say that I'm very pleased to see the consensus on this forum is for good sense to prevail on this topic. I agree with the sentiment expressed by all so far and am slightly happier knowing that other folk think that way too :!

My blood boiled when I read the letter in T&S, so irritated was I that I re-read it several times just to be convinced that someone genuinely considered this a reasonable subject to have a letter published. I'm all for the right of the individual to have an opinion. However, I reserve the right to disagree and on this subject in particular.
I cannot understand that letter, I mean really :? Honestly :? I thought that sort of thinking had died out and long since been buried where it belongs...... with the Victorians.
Certainly, when I was part of things 'Don', I actively discussed the notion of opening up the river to Sunday fishing for trout fishing (on a C&R basis) with proprietors and I am genuinely pleased to note that beyond the waters of the ADAA there are opportunities to fish for trout on a Sunday.
Long may it continue.

What concerns me a smidgen - although the river itself is no longer part of 'my' life - is that there are still folk out there who have extremely conservative views that I consider to be misinformed and misguided. How this is addressed is something we probably all need to think about, as it cannot only be the Don where the notion of trout fishing on a Sunday fishing is an issue (or soon will be). Perhaps, once again, we are faced with spectre of 'Salmon is best' which seems to me (in part) where Mr Thornton is coming from.

Very, very sad indeed. I thought we lived in more enlightened times.

:mad
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ;)

Ben_D

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 21:56:42 PM »
Must say that I'm .........
....................
.............Very, very sad indeed. I thought we lived in more enlightened times.

:mad

Just re-read that H  :z4

Sandy Nelson

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 08:10:11 AM »
I was avoiding this one as i have mixed views on it, however.

I think that fishing on a sunday should be allowed , for all the very good and valid reasons above, BUT i also think the river should get a day of rest, perhaps we should look at giving the river a tuesday off, that way the pools will see their day of rest and it will make wednesday a day when a fish might just hit a fly more freely :z8

Maybe this sort of solution would be more acceptable to the whole community, it may even address the poaching part of the issue as far less people go out for a walk on a Tuesday therefore anyone on the river would be more conspicuous and it would happen on a day when the baliff's are all at work, so they still get their weekends too.

If the river was closed completely then the salmon would get a couple of days grace, unless of course deep seated Scottish rules could be overturned to reflect something other than an 18th century view of country life.

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Goolager

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 12:51:08 PM »
I agree that a day of rest is a good thing, which day might not be easy to agree on. I need to fish Tuesdays :X2

Sunday fishing should be compulsory catch and release, primarily because if it is allowed then just be thankful for the opportunity to fish, secondly because I think the River Don should be 100% catch & release over the whole season.
Fishing & its' spin offs are not something that fills my time it is what I do when I'm not sleeping or working & I hope that when I retire I will be in good enough health to continue in it's magical release.

So lets fish Sundays, agree to rest the river on Mondays (sorry Ben) and fish 100% C&R, sorted.

Iain

Ben_D

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 12:58:38 PM »
So lets fish Sundays, agree to rest the river on Mondays (sorry Ben) and fish 100% C&R, sorted.

Iain

 :X

Loxiafan

Re: Trout & Salmon, April issue - letter to editor
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2012, 13:11:24 PM »
I think that fishing on a sunday should be allowed , for all the very good and valid reasons above, BUT i also think the river should get a day of rest, perhaps we should look at giving the river a tuesday off, that way the pools will see their day of rest and it will make wednesday a day when a fish might just hit a fly more freely :z8

Hi Sandy,

Respect your suggestion - I can understand the view of giving the river and fish a days rest, and where there are high fishing 'pressures' and effort this would seem sensible. The problem I see is that some beats will have higher fishing pressures than others and even at that it will vary depending on what month it is so it possibly wouldn't apply evenly across the river system. It may also effect visiting Trout (and particularly Salmon) anglers that tend to book their accomodation Saturday to Saturday - they would effectively lose a day. Most of the private beats limit the rods and this controls the pressures and effort.

Without wishing to sound 'gung-ho', the Brown Trout season (up here) is only 6 months, so for half the year they are completely 'rested', and it is the intention of most trout anglers to return thier catch. My experience last season was that I was often the only Trout angler on a beat, and sometimes the only angler (!) on a beat, so the effort was light to say the least - and these were Association beats ! It cuts both ways too, I was tending to favour targetting trout (the only species I fish for) on a Sunday as I wouldn't have to fish pools that had potentially been 'spun' or disturbed with spey casts, which meant I was going out on one less weekday - my 'effort' was the same. Can't comment on Salmon pressures, but if high, the beasties are currently spared on a Sunday anyway so I'm still for the status quo.

As no-one seems to be pushing the idea of Sunday Salmon fishing on the Don I suppose the question is: does the Sunday Trout fishing disturb the Salmon fishing, which is the point Mr. Thornton seemed to be pushing in his letter ? I tend to think it doesn't for the reasons above.

I do think the Sunday Trout should be a mandatory 100% C+R though to avoid any 'mistakes', but this may not be practical.

Lindsay

 




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