[Rob Brownfield]

I have noticed that modern tubes seem to be tied on much smaller tubes these days.

All the tubes I tied back in the day were 2-4" tubes surrounded by various shades of bucktail, and the hook was right at the back of the fly.

It seems that these days the tubes are all 3/4 to 2" with a long "wing" and the hook sits roughly in the middle of the fly.

What is the reasoning behind this? I am guessing better hook hold/better swimming attitude in the flow?

Since the tubes are much smaller but the flies are still 2-4", is it a case of tying on a heavy, short tube or a lighter tube but on a sink tip?

Cheers in advance.

[Sandy Nelson]

Nice question

My only thoughts on this are,
I think every salmon i've ever caught on a Rapala has been hooked on the centre hook.
So having the hook in the middle of the fly might make for more hook ups

Sandy

[Paul Rankine]

Rob,
        You need to beg ,steal or borrow a copy of Mikael Frodin's DVD ""Make 'Em Swim" which pretty much covers the subject. He also does another DVD on Tying Tube Flies which is well worth the money too.

Hope that helps.

Paul.

[Rob Brownfield]

Thanks chaps,
Sandy, I think pretty much the only fish I have ever caught on a rear treble on a lure has been Perch. They seem to tail nip a fair bit.

Paul, I will have a look out for the DVD. So the swimming action seems to be the reason?

Cheers

[Paul Rankine]

Hi Rob,
             Yep. That seems to be the main reasoning as well as wot sandy said about salmon attacking the middle of the Rapala ( and big tubes too) . Mikael says that's the reason that many times using big tubes the fish are hooked on the outside of the jaw.

I,ve had this on occasion too, seems logical , if anything is in salmon fishing.

Love his wee bit in the video when he says " If the tube is tied perfectly it should look so alive that it could bite the end of the leader off and swim off on it's own . That's the perfect fly ! " Great .

The video is a bit of an ad for his FITS system but don't let that put you off . It does make you think a lot more about  the hydrodynamics of a creating a balanced fly design.

Cheers,

Paul.

[Rob Brownfield]

Hi Paul,
Whilst working at Oceaneering I used to test flies, lures and all sorts in the flow tank. Amazing what happens under water, even in a laminar flow.

Even changing from an 10 pound leader to a 12 pound one meant the fly swam 2 inches shallower.

At the time I was more interested in Pike flies, getting them to wiggle in water, but not during the cast, but I like to think I learnt a few things that could be applied to Salmon flies.

Next step for me is to try a few "baitfish" pattens for Salmon that have a lovely attitude in the water. These things really do look alive in testing conditions with subtle flashes and twists.

Knowning my luck, the Salmon won't even look at them.

Hopefully I will get out Monday night for an hour to put some theory into practice.

[Paul Rankine]

 Hi Rob,
              Good stuff . Don't forget shrimp patterns. Very interested in seeing what you come up with.

Cheers,

Paul.

PS: Thanks for the B+W plug ! 

[Rob Brownfield]

Lol..no plug intended..lol..I always preferred B & W rods over Hardy and having once had (and stupidly sold) some very nice rods of theirs I would have been interested in the rod myself if I were not looking at double handers just now. 

I was tying some shrimps last night...on small copper tubes. I will get some doubles tomorrow and I am trying to source a good value jungle cock cape for tying up other flies.

[Paul Rankine]

Rob,
        I bought from our very own Flymakers on E-bay. Excellent cape for a bitty below the going price. I recommend them.

If you find better please post it up.

Cheers,

Paul.

[Rob Brownfield]

Ended up in Mortimers in Grantown today, got a nice A grade cape for £65. I went for it as not ounly were the eyes a nice sunburst colour, but there were also hundreds of tiny eyes perfect for sea trout/brown trout flies.

Happy bunny.

Been tying Cascades tonight, will be Black backs in various colours tomorrow.

And then I had better tie something with JC!! Maybe a posh tosh?

[Sandy Nelson]

For me the question is what hook to use

Been reading through the rules tonight and i guess i could use trebles if i wanted. I don't want too, but a single doesn't swim well with a tube so i'm guessing it's doubles ???

I always used the Salar ones, but i see there are quite a few types on the market now, any preferences???

Going to have to re-stock on salmon flies, seems i gave away most of my flies and tubes when i left the country.
Nice to have Bens nice short list to work with as a starting point and i still have plenty Bottle tubes to use, not much else appropriate though, i feel a trip to banchory coming on with my intro voucher from the Club

Sandy

[Ben Dixon]

I usually use Salar doubles and tie on Veniard Slipstream tubes.  Not over keen on bottle although I do have a few in my box, I find them a bit chunky in profile.  The Veniard super slim bottles are quite nice.

Bring the voucher over Sandy, I'll help you spend it    I've a Somers voucher to cash in too, I wonder if they sell B175's in packs of 10?

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

I am looking at using carp singles. Apparently, and I have yet to try, the weight of them holds the tube fly on an even keel.

I already have plenty of Owner Cutting Edge hooks that are wickedly sharp and hold extremely well.

[Paul Rankine]

Hi Sandy,
                I use Partridge Big Mouth doubles, not too pricey like some tube doubles and nice and short . Easy to squash the points down too.

For singles I order from the Togen's website,  (lots of other tubes goodies there too).

Paul.

[danbruce]

Wonder if any of the guys on here can help, i am looking at getting an adapter for my vice so i can tie up some tube flies. Catching my first salmon (hopefully one day) will be pretty sweet but doing it on my own fly would make it that little bit sweeter.

So far i have looked at the HMH tube fly adapter and the stonfo tube fly adapter.
Don't know if anyone on here has used either or both?

Cheers,

Dan

[Rob Brownfield]

I have the Eumer vice with the needles etc and I have to say, some tubes just dont fit well.

That HMH one that actually hold the base of the tube looks the business. Davie McPhial swears buy it and he has probably tied more tubes than anyone out there!

You can see it in use on his YouTube channel.

http://youtu.be/wu-Ymmhv87w

[Andy Wren]

http://www.graysofkilsyth.com/needle-tube-vice.htm

Been using this one for a while ,even recomended John made the stem a little longer to make the tying height more adjustable ,with both heads most tube tyable and not over expensive .

[danbruce]

Cheers Rob and ACW,

I did notice that Davie McPhail uses the HMH, so was guessing that it would be a good option.
Think that is the one i will go with.

Now i just need to decide what i am going to tie up and make a trip to the shops for materials.

Cheers again guys,

Dan

[Rob Brownfield]

Now i just need to decide what i am going to tie up and make a trip to the shops for materials.

I picked up my ADAA ticked two weekends ago and have, since then, spent close on £300 on "stuff" to tie tubes! And I had an extensively stocked fly tying room as it was..lol.

On the issue of tubes, I found a chap (Angling World 07) on Ebay that makes his own tubes. Works out at less than half the price you pay in the shops. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Angling-World-07/Fly-Tying-Materials-/_i.html?_fsub=8785700&_sid=210334477&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

They are not at bright as the Veniard tubes, but if you are adding a body of tinsel etc, then they are perfect! He does plastic, aluminum, copper and brass in sets at £9.99 for 50 (Plastic its 250!)

Might be worth looking at too

Oh..and cone heads as well.

[danbruce]

Cheers Rob,

Just had a quick look, certainly looks good.
Hopefully i can stick to a handful of patterns and sizes to keep the cost down....probably won't manage that though.

Cheers,

Dan

[Ben Dixon]

I've not had a problem at all with the Eumer vice although I would recommend lining any metal tubes first or they do tend to spin.  Some of the adapters are not bad but I wouldn't change my Eumer vice for anything, not found any sort of tube that it will not work with.

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

I've not had a problem at all with the Eumer vice although I would recommend lining any metal tubes first or they do tend to spin.  Some of the adapters are not bad but I wouldn't change my Eumer vice for anything, not found any sort of tube that it will not work with.

Cheers

Ben

I think its coz you sold me a dud!    The head is at a slight angle (down the way) so the thread often falls off the end of the metal tube when using it. Also, I find the bigger metal tubes (lined) are not held firmly and wobble, exagerating the issue with the thread comming off.

[Ben Dixon]

I think its coz you sold me a dud!    The head is at a slight angle (down the way) so the thread often falls off the end of the metal tube when using it.

Bring it in Rob & I'll have a look at it, if it is anything less than perfect I'll happily change it (once you've bought another Helios).

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

lol..I will indeed bring it in and show you my latest Helios Its amazing how much cheaper they are if you buy the blank...

[Ben Dixon]

lol..I will indeed bring it in and show you my latest Helios Its amazing how much cheaper they are if you buy the blank...

I refer you to the above post Rob, custom builds don't count