[Liam Stephen]

Which would you recommend? 

Cheers

[Iain Goolager]

What you tying?

[Liam Stephen]

Small CDC's  and some para patterns. Also looking for a decent nymph hook 

Cheers

[danbruce]

My first lot of barbless hooks were Daiichi 103BL dry fly hooks sizes 14 and 16 bought from fly tying boutique. Notice they do them down to size 20. Seem quite good, reasonably priced and fly tying boutique deliver fast.

But what do i know, you could write what i know on the back of a stamp.

Dan

[Iain Goolager]

Liam,

A CDC fly, as is true for a Para pattern, can mean different things to different people
Here's my take on things;

If you require a fly tied on a Klinkhamer hook be it a CDC emerger or standard para type fly, I know of no hooks which are barbless, which is not an issue as there are more micro barbed flies on the go now OR you can simply flatten the barb OR both.

If you require a fly tied on an emerger style hook, again be it with CDC or Para style hackling then, again of the 5 types that I can think of they all have barbs, albeit 4 types are micro barbs and the above will again apply.

If you require a barbless hook for on the surface then the Partridge SLD is hard to beat, this is an area which has a reasonable selection of barbless hook types & I think that the SLD is as good as any. Dan indicates the Tiemco 103BL and this hook is a lovely looking light bit of engineering and has a very wide following but I've had 4 or 5 straighten on me and that's why I've a good few in a box that are gathering dust, straightening out on a Rainbow is one thing but on a decent Brown in the river can make a grown man cry.

I've never had an issue with Tiemco 900BL's either, a good solid hook.
I rather like the Tiemco 102Y's but again these are micro barbed and that wasn't your original question.
Dohiku HDD 301's are quoted as Dry fly hooks but although I have used them without issue for F-Flies, the shank length to gape ratio just looks....untraditional?? Good hook though.
The varivas 2120WB I liked the look of but again I've no confidence in them after a straightening out incident.


Nymph hooks - I can only personally see a couple of avenues. As most of my nymphs are bottom dwellers I like the traditional long heavy hook like the Mustad R72, which I can't get locally now but this is no issue as they were barbed and I have now found the Tiemco 3761SP BL, which I think is an excellent hook - anyone any thoughts on the spear point design?
The Partridge Ideal Nymph comes in micro barbed and barbless, these are what I'd consider dodgy in larger sizes & waters with larger fish, never held much confidence in long shanked hooks with such relatively fine wire..............maybe it's just me.

Listen to every reply and the various experiences with different models and make an informed decision 'cos remember hooks are expensive, I saw a packet of trout hooks (25 pieces) for pennies under £6 last week   find a type per application and stick with them.

Iain

[Liam Stephen]

Holy shit Iain 
Absolutely brilliant reply, appreciate it 
Sorry for being a bit vague in my post

Thanks

[Loxiafan]

Hi Liam,

For Klinks you could try Varivas 2200 BL - B 's. These are Barbless, Black and wide gaped and I have seen some folks tie nice Klinks on them though I use them for DHE's and 'drop arsed' Balloon Caddis (see North Country Angler's blog for these). I have heard of some folks having them straighten but I haven't so far and have put quite a bit of sidestrain on quite a few decent fish to steer them from hazards and no probs.......yet !

A good (and cheaper !) alternative to Tiemco 103BL's are Grip 11011BL's - again Barbless and Black.

Fulling Mill do good, cheap hooks IMO but you will have to crimp down the micro barbs ! The Dohiku Iain mentions are also good, pretty solid, great hook holding as well - I think the competition guys use these ? Also, Mustad R50's have a small micro barb that is easily crimped and they are great for dries and Spiders IMO, pretty cheap too which is a consideration if you are tying a few !

All are available from Chris at www.lathkill.com (top bloke and excellent mail order service).

Cheers,

Lindsay

[Iain Goolager]

Just been thinking Liam, I used to tie and still have a 'klink & Din'k Box with Klinks/ Emergers tied on Kamasan B100 Hooks. These were from days gone by but a very successfull hook shape for CDC emergers or Klinkish Parachute flies.

It was such a popular hook design I'd be surprised if there weren't barbless equivalents today.......................a quick squint at Phil's site threw this up which may or may not be similar (pictures of hooks can be very deceiving).


 Dohiku HDG 611

Also when I mentioned traditional emerger style hooks I mean this shape......



Which is often desribed as a stonefly or caddis hook - whats in a name?


Iain

[Iain Goolager]

Hi Lindsay,

Heard about the 2200 Bl but never got round to trying some.

A few years back I tried the 212Y, which is micro barbed and fine wired, for tying tiny emerging para type flies and they were great. Towards the end of last summer I ted a few CDC & Elks on size 13's and they proved to be liked by the fish although I'd like to test them on larger fish.



Iain 

[Loxiafan]

Hi Iain,

Thanks for posting those, might have to try those. That looks like a Varivas 2200BL but possibly a lot more sturdy, and obviously barbed. I use a Kamasan B100 sometimes a B110 if I think I need something strong on DHE's etc but I don't think they hook up as well as the 2200BL's and don't sit quite as good on the water (maybe just my tying, or more likely the heavier hook ?). I wouldn't have thought the 2200BL's were any less robust than a 103BL though I too have had these 'open' a touch. If you do a search on 2200BL's you'll find a lot of folks offering to give them away, they have so little confidence, offest with people who have had no issue with them. Maybe some folks play their fish really hard, or perhaps there is quality control issues (I doubt that).

Another potential 'under the radar' one is the new (?) Diacchi Klinkhamer hooks which are actually designed by Van Klinken himself - Phil Holding sells them and they are much less 'angular' than Partridge Extremes, similar to the BN's. I tied a few March Brown sized DHE's on them and reckon they will be good early season. They are barbed so need crimping.

As for Barbless, IME, the Dohiku 301 and 302's take some beating. Excellent holding properties for a barbless hook - even with Sea Trout. Maybe why the comp guys seem to favour them as they are not allowed to crimp barbs down, the hooks must be barbless apparently.

Cheers,


Lindsay

[Iain Goolager]

Lindsay,

As I said I've never seen the 2200's but it's suprising to hear that you imagine that they are less strong than the 212Y shown above - it just goes to show that hook pictures can be deceiving as I very much doubt that, the gauge used on the 212Y is 'fine' any finer would be too fine.

Then there's me saying the 103BL is too fine, or sould that be weak  when I'm happy with the 212Y  perhaps the design helps 
Don't Know.

You mention Fulling Mill and these guys must churn out a fair few hooks each year and I doubt that there are much complaints but a few years ago I had a soft one 'cheeky' (got a video of it in the vise somewhere) so haven't used them since, similarly I had the same happen to a Knapek (got a video of that one too somewhere) and have a pile of these which are unused.

I've seen the new Klink hooks on Phils' website and I'm sure they are great  also I agree that these or the standard partridge Klink hooks make for great emerger patterns.

Iain

[Liam Stephen]

Who would have thought choosing a few hooks could be so hard!!

Liam

[Loxiafan]

Hi Iain,

Yeah, just looked more sturdy to me in the pic ??

212Y are listed as 4xS and 5XW.

2200BL's 2x fine and 3 x fine.

Dunno if that helps - not sure what S and W stand for but the Varivas are marked as "fine" ? The Varivas are quite 'bendy' ! Could be the illusion of the piccies as you say ! Using "fine" hooks on Don Trout may well be a bad idea  but then there is always the Kamasan B100 etc and they appear nuke proof

Lindsay

[Loxiafan]

Who would have thought choosing a few hooks could be so hard!!

It gets worse Liam, when you have a preference for particular hooks for particular patterns - so you need 20 different hooks 

I am pretty sure I could get by with just Varivas 2200 (or Kamasan equiv) and the Mustad R50s (which although very strong hooks, float well on dries and are ace spider hooks, IMHO) for most of my Don trouting.

Then again, if you don't try anything new life would be a bit dull possibly ?

Lindsay

[Loxiafan]

- not sure what S and W stand for but the Varivas are marked as "fine" ?

"Wide" and "Standard" (or Short ?) , duh !

I actually looked at the hooks on Lathkill and that is maybe where I thought the 212y looked more robust. Varivas cheaper, more hooks (pack of 30).

Lindsay