[Ben Dixon]

Yes, but I seriously doubt if size 12's were in mind when they were first tied chap

H

This must refer only to a certain hook size though. Forget the size of the fly for a minute, surely the implication cannot be that the same number of turns of rib are used on any size of pattern?  This is more the point I was trying to make rather than 7 turns being too much for a #12 B170.

Cheers

Ben

[Euan Innes]

Surely it would also depend on how many turns of body hackle were made as well.
Locking in the palmered hackle is the point of the rib and if it's a "skinny" fly then there will be less rib used.
To be honest I can't recall Kingsmill Moore ever talking about the number of turns,or size of wire,  just the rib being oval gold. And I agree that it should be oval (although it depends on what I have in my kit at the time!) in order to show through the claret dubbing and the double hackle.
Oh, and +1 on the Blue Jay. It might be a pita to tie in but nothing beats a BJ 

Which brings us back to flies being built at a cost and being tied incorrectly. A good reason to tie your own but are we not seeing the old patterns becoming wrong and that "wrong" being the norm. I love a variation in flies, the new and improved Loch Ordie being a great example, but I do like to see "classics" tied properly. By properly, I mean the right ingredients and not how many turns of rib 

I'm also not adverse to "inventing" a fly or two, but I taught myself to tie the classics properly before I got inventive.

Ben,
As for the black and claret together, it probably doesn't really matter. But hold one of each up to the light and I think that the double hackled one has a different "aura", if that's the right word, and bulges the water better.

Once again that could just be shite...

 

[Loxiafan]

A good reason to tie your own but are we not seeing the old patterns becoming wrong and that "wrong" being the norm. I love a variation in flies, the new and improved Loch Ordie being a great example, but I do like to see "classics" tied properly. By properly, I mean the right ingredients and not how many turns of rib 

Like the dreaded "Partridge and Orange/Orange Partridge"  ? 

I too think tradition in fly fishing (and fly tying) is great, really interesting, a heritage even, but I also think it is quite cool that we can vary traditional patterns to reflect modern materials or even available materials. Case in point, I often use Coot for Waterhen Bloa and it doesn't seem to make much difference, though I admit Moorhen does have more useful shades. Also I read a Paul Proctor article where he tied a Black Pennell with Black Ice Dub body with Red Holo ribbing and it looked absolutely Killer ! Will be trying a few of those....at least he didn't give it a 'new' name !

Lindsay

[Magnus Angus]

As far as the Bumbles go, Magnus will almost certainly remind anyone that there should be 7 turns of oval gold tinsel in the dressing - no more, no less (something like that anyway).

No Hamish, he won't. Tradition says an odd number of turns. The number of turns depends on the length of the body or body section and the size, ie width, of the material.

So,

..surely the implication cannot be that the same number of turns of rib are used on any size of pattern?  This is more the point I was trying to make rather than 7 turns being too much for a #12 B170.

Yes! - mostly. Chances are we would use different tinsel sizes depending on hook size and 7 turns on a trout #12 would be too much for me. I'd probably use a wider tinsel for an #8 than for a #14 - but might use fewer turns (3) on a wee fly. I tend to stick to 5 turns on traditional trout patterns and styles when hooks are #14 and larger.

[Hamish Young]

No Hamish, he won't. Tradition says an odd number of turns. The number of turns depends on the length of the body or body section and the size, ie width, of the material.

Well, I did say almost certainly I just recall being mildly berated by a certain Magnus Angus at Scone once a long long time ago for there not being 7 turns of gold wire (as I hate oval gold tinsel... that's another story) in a claret bumble I'd just tied.... as you can tell, it's sort of stuck with me ever since.

Nice to see you posting on the forum again Magnus

H 

[Euan Innes]

I seem to recall that day, although due to the previous night, things are a bit fuzzy 
I also seem to recall that I was as miffed as you, and also recall that "f**k off" was used 

I can see that filling my flybox for the coming year won't be as easy as I hoped, if it's being judged 
As an aside I put an order in to a couple of gamekeepers that I know tonight for some Blue Jay. Catch and release only works in fishing!