[Euan Innes]

As I sit here sipping my martini (proper James Bond Vesper not the bottled muck) I'm mulling over a conversation that I had with the venerable Mr Dixon this afternoon about the original tying of that famous pattern, the Loch Ordie.
According to my 1988 paperback version of John Roberts "new illustrated dictionary of trout flies" the Loch Ordie was tied by W.S Sinclair of Orkney at someone's request and the pattern is as follows

Starting at the bend work forward with the following hackles - black, very dark red/brown, dark red/brown, medium red, honey dun, ginger and finished off with the famous white hackle at the head.

Never having ever seen a honey dun cape and never having the money for every colour of red/brown I used to tie them black, dark red, light red, white and it caught fish. The entry the the dictionary is from Stan Headley (he wrote the Bible you know) so might just be horse pucky but I do recall that this was how the pattern was tied.

I think the pattern changed when flies became mass produced in foreign parts and the price of a fly with seven hackle would not be viable so the pattern was changed to what we know now.

Does anyone else recall it tied this way? Any other anecdotes or fibs?

(Of course it's all pointless now that the gold version is in my fly box but I do like the history of loch trout flies)

 

Next up the claret bumble...

[Graham Ritchie]

Thats a more recent variation of the original fly. The original Loch Ordie was a dapping fly, usually tied on a single salmon hook, often with one or two flying trebles. The body of the fly consisted of a number of red-brown cock hackles palmered up the hook and it was finished with a white cock hackle at the head.

[Ben Dixon]

Thats a more recent variation of the original fly. The original Loch Ordie was a dapping fly, usually tied on a single salmon hook, often with one or two flying trebles. The body of the fly consisted of a number of red-brown cock hackles palmered up the hook and it was finished with a white cock hackle at the head.

Exactly what I wanted to hear, I concur! 

Ben

[Euan Innes]

Thats a more recent variation of the original fly. The original Loch Ordie was a dapping fly, usually tied on a single salmon hook, often with one or two flying trebles. The body of the fly consisted of a number of red-brown cock hackles palmered up the hook and it was finished with a white cock hackle at the head.

Yes they were dapping flies but they were tied in tandem, not single hooks.
So does anyone know why J Yorston of Orkney asked his local tackle dealer to tie the Loch Ordie in such a way, with the black hackle at the back? And why, if you Google Loch Ordie in images, a lot of them have the black?

Just really curious now 

 

[Ben Dixon]

Hamish told me the proper one has a gold fritz body and no black in it  ??? 

[Euan Innes]

And exactly WTF would he know? 
Comes on here spouting knowledge and thinks he can get away with anything.
Honestly, I mean, what did we do before gold? What did the Romans do for our Loch Ordies?

 

[Ben Dixon]

O.K, so it is one of H's "prototypes" that uses gold fritz but, as per our discussion today, I am fairly sure that the original had only white & brown hackle.

The claret bumble original dressing would interest me as I've seen many "original" recipes for this one.  I'll shoot Magnus a mail, he can get very anal about these things and is bound to know.

Cheers

Ben

[Euan Innes]

From the book, A man may fish.


Claret Bumble
Tail. Four strands of G.P. tippet
Body. Medium claret seal's fur (R.H.S. Indian Lake 826/3), ribbed oval gold
Body hackles. Cock dyed medium claret, and natural black cock
Shoulder hackle. Blue jay.


Again I think that this is a pattern that has suffered from cost cutting. I've not seen any in a shop that have both body hackles, usually just the claret.
Have any other patterns changed due to the need for cheap flies?

Ben,
I look forward to Magnus's thoughts on the Ordie.

 

[Ben Dixon]

Re the bumble Euan, I've tied them with black in there too but, much prefer the look of the fly with just the claret hackle and it certainly catches me enough fish to be happy with it.  Woudn't entertain the pattern without Jay on the front, can keep bumbles tied with Guinea Fowl etc. 

Cheers

Ben

[Hamish Young]

Interesting topic.
For me there's something in everyone's interpretation of the original pattern so far in this thread.

The Loch Ordie is generally agreed to have derived from a dapping fly, I'm with Graham as all I've seen from old collections have been on big singles with flying doubles or trebles - although I have tied them as tandems in the past as well. I have seen many versions over the years and heard many tales about how it should be tied. However, to throw an additional idea into the melting pot, have a good look at the American pattern the bi-visible (specifically the brown bi-visible) and then at the contemporary Loch Ordie then tell me the difference

As far as the Bumbles go, Magnus will almost certainly remind anyone that there should be 7 turns of oval gold tinsel in the dressing - no more, no less (something like that anyway). I'll be interested to see what he has to say about the Loch Ordie and even more intrigued by his view on my interpretation of a classic with 'unusual' materials in the dressing 

When it comes to the Romans.....
"... apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us "

H 

[Ben Dixon]

As far as the Bumbles go, Magnus will almost certainly remind anyone that there should be 7 turns of oval gold tinsel in the dressing - no more, no less (something like that anyway). I'll be interested to see what he has to say about the Loch Ordie and even more intrigued by his view on my interpretation of a classic with 'unusual' materials in the dressing 

Unless the fly is tied on a long shank or huge hook then 7 turns is too much IMO, 7 turns on a #12 B170 would be nothing other than rib  ???

Ben

[Hamish Young]

Unless the fly is tied on a long shank or huge hook then 7 turns is too much IMO, 7 turns on a #12 B170 would be nothing other than rib  ???

Yes, but I seriously doubt if size 12's were in mind when they were first tied chap

H

[Euan Innes]

Yes, but I seriously doubt if size 12's were in mind when they were first tied chap

H

Indeed. I think Messers Moore, Young and Innes are cut from the same cloth.
"Looks like a size eight wave to me chap..." is something that you will hear in a boat if me and H are about.
I think southern reservoirs are responsible for the size reduction, thus confirming that southern things are smaller...

Waiting for Magnus to throw in his tuppence.

 

[Sandy Nelson]

"Looks like a size eight wave to me chap..." is something that you will hear in a boat if me and H are about.

you should get him to sit down when he casts 
or is that because he IS sitting down ?? 

[Euan Innes]

you should get him to sit down when he casts 
or is that because he IS sitting down ?? 

I am reminded of a quote from Star Wars.

"Watch your mouth kid, or you'll find yourself floating home"