[Mike Barrio]

Here is Lindsay's Edmonds & Lee swatch image.

[Sieger Devries]

Thanks Mike, Will have a look tomorrow in daylight (and without the influence of wine...  )

[Mike Barrio]

Enjoy the wine!

Best wishes
Mike

[Ben Dixon]

Thanks Mike,

SOme of those look very different to other colours I have.

My #3 is very much paler than depicted and my #8 is very much darker in tone, infact, most look rather different.  I think we'll have a hard job trying to compare silk to old images.  Not that sure it matters but very interesting.

CHeers

Ben

[Loxiafan]

Thanks for putting up the swatch Mike as it makes it easier to see what I am talking about (maybe ? !).

The image is quite a bit smaller in the book and if anything the colours are more 'intense' than on my monitor. I would say the shades Phil Holding is producing/selling very closely (if not exactly) match these swatches - remember the number for the shade is above the colour on the plate (confused me initially).

I mentioned Ollie Edwards. I have his Czech Nymphing DVD and as an extra he does a bit on NC Spiders and tying. For his Partridge and Orange he specifies "Pearsalls Orange, shade 6A" and in the booklet his example is very orange ala Antique 6A or 19 Hot Orange - his will no doubt be old thread rather than this new stuff Phil sells. Not definitive evidence, but nevertheless there are few with a greater eye for detail, and historical reference, than Oliver Edwards ! Ollie also holds Edmonds and Lee up as "gospel"......

Cheers,

Lindsay

[Peter McCallum]

I have a number of pearsalls bobbins, some old some from Ben's source. Question. Does it make any difference to the trout? I know it does to us, but to the trout?

Ah'll get ma coat   

[Loxiafan]

I have a number of pearsalls bobbins, some old some from Ben's source. Question. Does it make any difference to the trout? I know it does to us, but to the trout?

It does seem an exercise in pedanatry all of this I know, but when many references mention "the right" 6A turns a nice 'mahogany shade' when wet, replicating the body colour of particular nymphs and spinners, then maybe it does - Gold 6A doesn't turn mahogany for me, in fact looks quite yellowy ! That said, can fish really see colours ??  ???

Ollie didn't give a video for his Partridge and Orange but on his fantastic Wet Fly DVD he ties a March Brown spider ala Edmonds and Lee - he takes the recipe directly from a dusty old copy on his bench. The Recipe (8b) calls for "orange pearsalls 6A". The thread Ollie is using is defintely a darker Orange hue ala Antique 6A or Hot Orange - it is not the yellowy 6A. It won't matter much in this pattern as only head really shows, but for an Partridge and Orange, Brown Owl etc it may make a difference....or maybe not !


Lindsay

[Loxiafan]

Just for reference to this thread, this is what Phil Holding replied with on flyforums (I'm sure he won't mind me citing it):

Hello Lindsay,

Sorry I'm late! ... my two pence worth ...

I think you have the colours marked correctly on your first post - the spool on the left is the "modern" 6A from Pearsalls - as the years have gone by, the original dyes were watered down and no one at Pearsall's bothered to keep an acurate note of the dye mix so the colour became paler and paler.

The "antique 6A" was reproduced by John & Carol at langley Threads following both myself and Louie Noble providing samples of 6A that were at least 35 years old.

The Antique 6A initially looks even brighter than No 19 but Hot Orange changes a lot more when wet - it goes "hot" compared with 6A which takes on a mahogany look, expecially if you have waxed the thread before tying.

As you rightly say, Edmonds & Lee indicated tying an Orange Partridge using the shade 6A - so the antique 6A is the closest thread to use if you wish to keep to the traditional recipe.

Why not tie some with antique and some with modern 6A, fish with both and see which the fish prefer on the day?

Kind regards
__________________
Phil Holding
www.flytyingboutique.com
Airedale, North Yorkshire

[Peter McCallum]

Why not tie some with antique and some with modern 6A, fish with both and see which the fish prefer on the day?

Now that sounds like a sensible suggestion!

[Loxiafan]

Now that sounds like a sensible suggestion!

Aye, but that would be a 'Partridge and Orange' and (almost) a 'Partridge and Yellow'  !

Lindsay

[Loxiafan]

....much more constructive comments and 'banter' on this forum though !  Maybe, cos we are all, or most of us, 'local' (not in League of Gentlemen way though) ! ?

Lindsay

[Peter McCallum]

Maybe, cos we are all, or most of us, 'local' (not in League of Gentlemen way though) ! ?

But we are all 'locals' 

[Sandy Nelson]

Aye, but that would be a 'Partridge and Orange' and (almost) a 'Partridge and Yellow'  !

Lindsay

Perhaps, might depend on the feather



Raided my box i brought home with me, theres a 4,6 and 19, some brown, some grey.

heres one pearsalls didn't do



Sandy

[Sieger Devries]

Had a quick look in my 'Spider-box'.... I saw 5 shades of orange (to my surprise.. )

6, 6a, 6a antique (i guess), 6b and 19... There very little difference between the 6 a ant. and 19 Hot Orange...

I had another look at the first pic from Lindsay and I think the colors don't match the real colors on the bobbin... the 6a Gold is far too yellow in the pic..

Looking at the E&L swatch the 'new' 6a did wash down during time and the '6a antique' or '19 Hot Orange' come closer... Think the antique could be the real thing....

Waahhhh almost wish I was colorblind....

Just a stupid question... Are there different manufacturers of the PS-silk??? Can't imagine one producing two shades with 1 name ...

[Richard Tong]

Oliver used/uses Pearsalls more towards the 19 shade. He has always used this and likes the chestnutty colour it goers when wet. He wrote an article in April 2001 in FF & FT and we all got into Spiders even more down here when it appeared and all went round obscure fishing shops hunting down original Pearsalls Gossamer. In fact I recall getting a load of Ash colour(very rare) from a fishing shop which was in Banchory at the time, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't Orvis but may have well been in the same location.

A guy I know went so far as to visit the Pearsalls factory and speak to someone in the know about colours, availability, changes etc. He got us colour swatches which I still have to this day. I seem to remember that he said in fact that the 6a now is the same as the 6a back in the days of Edmonds & Lee. Even when Ol was told this he still continues to use the 19 as he has used it all his puff, it's always done well for him and he saw no reason for changing a winning formula. I think he has quite a few spools of the orange shade that he favours! After our scouring of shops for original rare Gossamer spools (I have loads that I managed to get even 10 years ago)he came round one day when he and Hazel were shopping at Stephen Smiths Garden Centre in nearby Otley and went through all my Hot Orange spools and marked on them the ones that he thought were the best shade. He must have been here for 90 mins...and all that time Hazel sat in the car. Even when I asked him a couple of times if she would like to come in for a cup of tea he replied "our lass is fine in t' car"....priceless!!

By the way he fishes a lot more with dries now than he used to! He had his PB from Gallogate in April this year on a dry and it weighed 3lb 8oz. Not big for a Don trout but a belter for us here in Yorkshire.

As an aside this season on Don was the worst Spring we have experienced since we first fished it in 2001. Lets hope 2012 is better. Luckily other rivers compensated!

Richard