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Matt Henderson

epoxying rods
« on: June 08, 2011, 09:39:36 AM »
All,

I epoxied the top two sections of my new rod over the last few nights and it has left me  :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad

I spent time burnishing the threads, trimmed the tag ends ultra close, flashed them with a lighter.  Wiped them with alcohol (aye not lager  :z18) before applying the epoxy.  One monday night the rod turner slipped after I had gone to bed so not a great finish but it had mostly set up before the turned had slipped by the look of things.  Also I put the epoxy on the radiator before I started so that the syringes were warm as per the tips on the packet but before I finished the second section it was getting too viscous to put on a thin coat.  Before I recoated I trimmed off all the bumps with a razor and then wiped with alcohol again.  Last night I started earlier and didn't warm the epoxy so that it wouldn't set up so fast.  Some of the wrappings are like glass and then the next one is covered in fuzzies?

Any tips for getting a better finish? I really only wanted to do two coats but it looks like three it is.....  :mad

Cheers

Matt

Sandy Nelson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2011, 10:56:16 AM »
Matt

I have never wiped the wraps with alcohol, why did you decide to do that?
I always degrease a Blank before i wrap, then fuzz burn after the wrap and it should be fine.

I'd be worried that the thread is holding some of the alcohol or that when it is wet it is absorbing some of the grease from the blank? Whatever, i wouldn't bother in the future with wiping the wraps.

Temperature changes can affect the epoxy when it is curing and the fuzz is either going to be dust, or you are damaging the thread surface prior to the application of epoxy, possibly when burnishing. Not sure :z8. Fuzz is not a problem as after the first coat just slice with a razor blade and the next will be fine, unless it is caused by dust. :z6.
the dust may be in the brush?

A salmon rod will need more epoxy and time than a trout rod as the blanks are a very much larger diameter, dont try to work with the epoxy once it starts to go off, you will make a mess and only have to do it again. It is much better to just mix some more and accept some wastage :z16

patience wins out in the end :z18

As for turners slipping, put some masking tape on the area going into the jaws and tape over the screws and it doesn't happen :wink I've had to do this for years until i got the 4 rod bank.

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Matt Henderson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2011, 11:33:25 AM »
Sandy,

I wiped the wraps out of OCD I think, just another chance to remove any grease from my fingers from the wrappings.  

The real problem is that this was the second coat!  I was hoping for only two coats and could get away with it on some of the wraps but on others not a chance!  I think I must have got some dust or something onto one of the wraps as it is worse than after the first coat and I'd removed all of the lumps and bumps with a razor after the first coat.  

Reference the dryer slipping that was my own fault, I had three sections built up but only epoxying the top two sections and had the support stand almost at the tip of the top section so as the blank turned it was bellying and working the blank loose from the "jaw".  I moved the support stand last night and hey presto it ran from 9pm until 6am no problems.  

I hadn't really thought of it but you're probably right I should accept that epoxying takes a while and mix up one batch per section, compared to the cost of the blank and other bits its peanuts. 

Looks like I'll be busy with the razor blade and the detail files tonight!

Cheers

Matt

Sandy Nelson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2011, 12:33:24 PM »
Matt

Don't touch the wraps with a file :shock that would give you loads of fuzz!!!!!!!!!
razor blades only :wink

Grease from your fingers is not much a big deal with most epoxies, its the residual on the finish of the blank that causes a reaction , In my experience. Some blanks are worse than others.

Good luck

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Matt Henderson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 12:40:13 PM »
Matt

Don't touch the wraps with a file :shock that would give you loads of fuzz!!!!!!!!!
razor blades only :wink

Grease from your fingers is not much a big deal with most epoxies, its the residual on the finish of the blank that causes a reaction , In my experience. Some blanks are worse than others.

Good luck

Sandy

Sandy

I've used a very small detail file in the past and worked fine much in the same manner as this guy did:

http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=26143

Sandy Nelson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2011, 12:49:45 PM »
 :shock I've never seen anything that bad before :shock
Doesn't matter how much effort you put in, if that happens then there is something wrong with your environment.

I did notice that most of the filing he does, is over bare blank , not the wraps :wink

IMHO i'd still not go near any wraps with a file, it is very easy to make it a lot worse.

have fun :z18

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Matt Henderson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2011, 12:54:38 PM »
Aye it's pretty extreme, mine isn't nearly as bad as that.  if it had been like that when I went through this morning I might have cried! 

I'll start with the razor and see how I get on.  Out of interest are you still using Flexcoat Lite as your preferred epoxy finish type stuff?

Sandy Nelson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2011, 12:57:34 PM »
I see you are reading that at the same time as I am :wink

Its interesting what he is saying about the Bad thread, makes sense, not something i've come across.
I've had bad epoxy though.

ON close inspection some of the later pictures on that article appear to be over thread, but he doesn't show them being filed down :wink

Always using flexcoat lite :z16 actually finding to cures really well under the aircon :wink think it might have dehumidifying effect on the area.

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Sandy Nelson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 13:01:24 PM »
Just had the pictures blown up and he is actually doing that over a base of thread, so my Bad :oops
Looks like he is wrapping with two layers, one under the ring and one over the foot, interesting stuff.

I would like to know what he has against Mike though :z4 :z4

I'd still not be filing wraps though :wink the epoxy is too soft unless it has been allowed to harden for several days.
Soft epoxy does not file well and drags making things worse :cry

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Matt Henderson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2011, 13:09:09 PM »
I see you are reading that at the same time as I am :wink

so I'm a forum tart!  :oops :oops

You're right he does seem to have a problem with Mike!

Mike Barrio

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 17:31:12 PM »

You're right he does seem to have a problem with Mike!

Cracker! ........  :z4  :z4  :z4
www.flylineshop.com   At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Matt Henderson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 20:18:46 PM »
That's them re epoxied. Hopefully they will look like glass in the morning.

Time to do some housework now, or do some cork filling.... z4 z4 z4

Sandy Nelson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2011, 00:31:57 AM »
But no dusting  :z4 :z4
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Matt Henderson

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2011, 07:30:01 AM »
But no dusting  :z4 :z4

Funny you mention that Sandy, I actually swept the floor and then wiped the floor down before I started with the epoxy last night, judging by this mornings results it looks good.  Phew!  :grin

Derek Roxborough

Re: epoxying rods
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2011, 15:12:25 PM »
I use a sealer before any attempt at epoxie, but after the last attempt, when the epoxie showed granulation, I would not use it again, I have used seymo rod varnish in the past with good results using their own sealer, and not having to spend hours turning blanks,after the granulation debacle I ended up using devcon 5 min epoxie doing each whipping seperately, it solved a problem , but at some cost time wise whereas the seymo was relatively painless and made a nice job, easgach1

 






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