[bracken]

Hello to you all above the Wall.

Many of you will have read some of my previous posts on the BFTA website, where the men in charge cornered me to write for them, allegedly because as I'm retired - I therefore have plenty of time! Mmmmm!!!

I was asked today whether anybody had posted on this site about a problem we are involved in - I didn't think anybody had, so here goes:

I'm currently involved on behalf of the BFTA, in trying to establish the facts pertaining to the problem, which is still emerging, about an apparent Float Tube ban which has been placed on all United Utilities Waters. UU is a massive organisation and administers at least 180 waters, many of them already known as super Float Tubing venues - Stocks, Arnfield and Walkerwood to name a very few. I believe that many of the Lake District waters are also under their remit, so I suspect many of you chaps who travel South could well be adversely affected if a ban is indeed in place.

I am finding incredibly difficult to get behind the 'glass wall' and into contact with the people who will have made these decisions, in order to try and establish the true facts. Undoubtedly, I have discovered that fishery managers have been told different things, and no straightforward clear reason for any ban has emerged as yet. Fear of alien shrimp infestation is quoted as a reason to at least one manager, while H&S issues appear to be the main reason given to others. As far as I am aware no attempt has been made by UU to approach any established  float tubing  group to gather information regarding safety etc.

At present I am using a polite, softly softly, approach to try and establish the actual situation, and do not feel that any impolite barracking will help the case at present. I would therfore urge some retraint in the content of website forum postings for the moment. Indeed nobody is actually sure what the situation is, and as far as I can discover UU have not issued any press releases on this matter. (Does anybody know different?)

I have an active thread open on the BFTA.org.uk website, where I will post progress reports for anybody who is interested. There are also two open threads on the flyfishing forums site - one started by 'Woz' where some progress has been made.

I know there are some very enthusiatic float tubers and fishermen who are members of this site, and am fairly sure that many of you may be affected by any ban. We may at some stage need to combine our efforts to educate some parts of the world how safe float tubing actually is, and what really really happens in our branch of fishing.

Mike tells me briefly, that you as a body were involved in overturning the Irish ban. Could somebody succinctly list what happened to remedy that situation please. If you are a member of the BFTA forum it could be placed on the string on this UU issue, otherwise put it on here and with Mike's permission I will cut and paste it.

As a matter of interest, has anybody managed to get Third Party Liability cover specifically for float tubing in your part of the world?

I look forward to your responses.

Bracken.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Tony ...... Welcome to the forum

I am aware of the emerging UU Waters issue, but have not posted anything on here until the situation is clarified and we have a clear idea of what is happening and hopefully why. I totally agree that it would not be a good idea to start shouting about a problem which has yet to be confirmed

Our involvement with the Irish ban was a very small one Tony, but you can follow what happened at this link http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2566.0

I'll leave this thread here for a while and will move it in to the float tubing section of the forum later.

Best wishes
Mike

[Offthebard]

We have been unable to float tube on any of the waters here in South West Englandshire for many years. The South West Lakes Trust who administer most of the large reservoirs here in the South West have stated it is a Health and safety issue. So if your on holiday in Corwall or Devon you might as well leave the tube at home.

They do allow float tubing once a month on one reservoir under strict supervision and I think they charge the boat fee for the using your tube - thats about 14 pound on top of your 23 pound permit - total 37 pound for the day or there abouts. It might even be a good bit more this year.

I don't think many of the water companies or their subsiduary Trusts are very Trout fisherman friendly nowadays and in fact would be happy to give up on it altogether. There's more money to be made by them in coarse fishing and other water activities such as windsurfing and dinghy sailing.

I thought that the Utility companies might bring some good changes to Trout Fishing - all I can say is that them and their so called charitable trusts seem on a collision course with trout anglers in England anyway :z19. I don't see any good news or outcomes here on the horizon even Severn and Trent have been pretty anti-trout angler recently.

This is what happnes when Executives and Trustees of water companies do not fish and have no Knowledge of the sport. Case in point - not one of the Trustees of the South west Lakes Trust is a fisherman or has ever cast a fly in their life.

Sandy B.

[bracken]

Ah! Well actually there are some waters you can fish in your areas if you area BFTA Member, and you are prepared to show your membership card, and sign a liability disclaimer, (which should be kept in the fishery lodge).

Roadford was test fished by us about 18 months ago, and has since been open to BFTA members who fish in at least pairs. We did fish a competition on there early last year, and several members have since visited in couples to float around and catch lovely brownies. As for launch fees, not if you are a BFTA member. We worked damned hard to  get this fishery opened and couldn't get much response from any 'locals' to join in. You may have to wear a bright Hi Vis hat on Roadford to avoid being mown down by a yacht - these are available for hire in the lodge or bring your own. A couple of the Drift lads, including Dave, Vaughan and Colin joined in for a press publicity day there last April. Where was everybody else? It's the old adage if you don't use it lose it!

I assume you are referring to Kennick as the other Water. Again joining the BFTA may give you benefits on there if you show Chris your membership card.

Kevin the BFTA Secretary, is I believe going to try to meet Angie and Chris from the waterboard sometime next week, and intends talking about fishing other waters.

The waterboard accepted that the BFTA were a very responsible organisation, willing to put the paperwork in and make some effort to ensure safety is adhered to. You might do well to join if you are not already members - it has been working hard in the SW. Diplomacy paid off!

Tight Lines.

[Offthebard]

Know them all very well for the last 30 years!

We tried in vain with SWLT for at least 5 years to just get boats operating on one of their Reservoirs. We had RNLI Safety lectures(paid our ourselves), automatic offshore lifejackets, strict conduct codes, and full insurance for 5 years - never got one day in a boat having jumped through more hoops than a circus clown. Finally got tired of Chris Hall and others promises, (btw Chris is just a manager and has no power) the directors of the operating company South West Lakes Ltd expressly made it clear to me that Fishing was one of three activities that was meant to make a profit stream for them and that they were a money generating arm of the trust and not a charity.

Roadford lake has a bit of a Perch problem - like thousands of them . Catch rates are usually about 10-1 perch to trout. Perhaps this will change, but as a party who has paid many thousands of pounds into SWL pockets over a number of years it dose not surprise me that current information on any float tubing is minimal from their direction.

Perhaps there has been a sea change in the last 2 years but I wait to be convinced. Might be amusing to get BFTA badge and just see the reception we get when we try it out .

Sandy B.   

[bracken]

I agree that there are a few perch in Roadford. Dave managed to catch a lot, fishing deep on a sunk line, but those members who fished intermediate or floating lines, virtually avoided them and caught a considerable number of brown trout - averaged about 20 or more each if I remember correctly. Some decent sized fish were also included in these catches.

We have had a very warm and pleasant reception on each occasion we have fished this water. Some common sense advice regarding areas to keep away from, and also areas which have been fishing well, have been freely given.

I am specifically referring to float tubing and not boats on these waters. Check the BFTA 2011 competion/meeting dates and there is at least one posted for Roadford, if you wish to join and come along you would be very welcome.

With regard To Chris Hall - it must be remebered that he was instrumental in allowing any float tube on any SW water. He was therefore a pioneer in proving the system safe and viable, to the powers that be down there. For this we should be very grateful. He and Angie have proved stalwarts in quietly allowing things to move forward.

It is with this in mind, that the rumoured current problem with United Utilities apparently taking a massively regressive decision regarding float tubes, turns into a major issue. It is only by supplying the relevant bodies with correct and honest information, that this branch of our sport will be tolerated and allowed to move forward. Some of the people who make these overwhelming decisions, have little or no knowledge of what we do, or what is involved. To an outsider, I can well understand why paddling into the middle of a deep, wide lake looks dangerous. It is up to us to prove it isn't, and also equally that we will not denude the water of all its fish, or alternatively, disturb them badly for other fishermen. These people with the best will in the world do not know anything different.

 The biggest single factor which will influence them is income earned for the company! At this juncture it may be up to fishery tenants and managers to lobby them to enable an increase in their income from the anglers, who will travel to fish in a float tube, but wouldn't bother turning up to fish off the bank for whatever reason.

[bracken]

Sadly I have to post the following - copied from the BFTA website.

United Utilities have indeed now confirmed that they are not allowing float tubing on any UU waters covered by the old Northwest Water Board area. Currently, the ban does not apply to the area which is / was Welsh Water. I have just finished a telephone call to Kate Snow of UU, who confirmed the situation to me, and partially clarified the reasons why this situation has arisen.

Briefly:

Kate wishes me to make the point, that UU have not actually changed their stance, and that float tubing was never allowed under the fishery tenancy agreements. (They didn't appear to know about float tubes or forsee they would be an issue). Because this activity took place on some waters, there were issues with insurance being invalid, because Float Tubing was not specifically mentioned or covered. (Because of another issue I am currently involved in on behalf of the BFTA, I was already aware that this problem had been noted in some quarters - from information already in the public domain).

From 4.00pm this afternoon, I received a phone call from Andre telling me that he had been contacted to say that Stocks are not allowed to accomodate us. I also similtaneously received an email from Matthew and Ben at Stocks confirming this. After talking to Kate just now, I know that Ben had been doing absolutely everything he could to allow us to fish the competition, and that he had been in serious discussions this afternoon. Kate also emailed me to confirm the Float Tube ban, prior to me phoning her for further clarification. (It's a quiet life being retired)!

The United Utilities stance stated by Kate, is that they are doing everything possible to stop the spread of the killer shrimp, because it will cost them millions if they get it in their waters. All protestations I made both verbally, and in writing, made no difference, although I was told that they had been circulated and considered. I was thanked for our Risk Assessment and told that it will be kept on record.

This Float Tube ban decision resulted from "an internal discussion". I was told that if the shrimp did indeed infest the waters and we approached them again, then our application for FT would be reconsidered. Otherwise this is the end! (No don't spread it please)!! Although she assures me that only very few waters in the area affected, because angling is not allowed on very many of them.

Stocks competition is therefore cancelled. I spoke to Peter Ross of Walkerwood earlier this afternoon before this ban was confirmed, and he knew nothing more at that point. If Stocks is off, then we will not be allowed on Walkerwood either! So I am afraid these superb waters are now no more as far as float tubes are concerned.

[Offthebard]

Sad news indeed Bracken on UU,

I suppose wading will be banned next in UU waters to prevent the killer shrimp spread. ???

Chris Hall has his heart in the right place but unfortunately it is Eveyln Stacey and the finance director Andy Parsons of SWL Ltd that make the decisions. I am wondering at what point they will start charging launching fees for float tubes - as with other watercraft.

Sandy B.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Tony

That is bad news and tricky. If we were to start discussing things like waders and nets used by bank anglers and boat anglers being possible carriers too, this would obviously be a bad idea as it is more likely to result in a total ban on fishing than improving any chances of getting out float tubing again

At the end of the day, these problems are just as likely to be spread by wildlife.

Building up a strong relationship with an insurance company that understands float tubing, or is willing to learn about float tubing, should be a priority IMHO, to help to cover any health & safety issues raised in the future. Would it be possible to approach tackle shops that currently offer tackle disinfection services to anglers visiting from overseas, to see if they can offer the same service for a float tube, waders, net and flippers kit and produce a relevant certificate?

Best wishes
Mike

[bracken]

Please find below a reply cut from the Flyforums website, which may further clarify the UU situation. Although this cut and paste may be slightly unethical, I believe it to be in the wider Angling interest where we have to help each other. The approval of the writer has been freely given. The letter to MP's may not be such a bad idea!
 
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Some seriously hard graft was put into trying to elucidate and resolve this issue. I can categorically assure everybody, that every representation was made in regard to FT safety; the highly unlikely event of us vectoring the KS, and the most likely ways in which it will probably be transferred. None of this cut any ice. The situation was a done deal and the inference is, that it would not be changed for the forseeable future.

A 'committee' somewhere in the bowels of the organisation had decided that float tubes were not in UU's interests. Interestingly during the communications, they didn't apparently know what float tubes were, and had to do a web search to find out. A quick look out of their window above the dam at Stocks would have sufficed I suspect, but Hey Ho!

Interestingly, after the representations were made on safety involving float tubes, and a copy of a 20 point Risk Assessment was forwarded, this subject was not now apparently seen as an issue. Transferring alien shrimps was the sole reason given to keep FT's, (and outside boats), off the waters despite all assurances that FT's were an extremely unlikely vector.

A feeling that float tubing was a misunderstood and unwanted addition to any of the UU waters, also appeared to be prevalent amongst the unknown 'powers that be'!

It is a shame that the Government, both at the time of disposing of Nationalised bodies and also now, have not kept a tighter grip on some of the powers these organisations have against the wider public interests. This situation might be a salutory warning against any sales of Forests as currently promulgated. Far be it from me to suggest these things, but perhaps a tactful and diplomatically worded letter or two to your MP's may be in order!    


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[Offthebard]

Aye and the KS has already spread to Wales outside of UU efforts. Likely cause supposed to be dinghy sailors, rather suspect like most aliens once across the channel and established there'll be no stopping it.

Thinking Red Grayfish in my mind and the results on our native residents . - could well be a similar story over time.

Sandy B.