[Mike Barrio]

When you hear somebody say "the fish are too small" do they possibly mean "my rod is too big"?

Cheers
Mike

[Steven Kidd]

I think maybe it is also some misconception as to what size trout should be.........

2lb is a big trout on a wild loch, 3-4lb is a monster!

But the rod you need to catch these trout on most wild lochs, needs to be a 6wt, 7wt, 8wt, and thats nothing to do with the size of the trout, its the weather that determines rod choice, and whether your in a boat or on the bank.

On a river it is similar, however when the weather is right catching a 1lb brownie on a 3wt rod it feels huge!, catch it on a 7wt and it feels small .......

So what does this tell us.........it gives a perfect excuse to go and buy more rods!! .......3wt, 5wt, 7wt......oh and varying lengths, so 8ft, 9ft, 10ft and maybe an 11ft. 

There you go I've justified it, go get a another new rod.

Steven

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Steven ..... yes, cool, I like your thinking!

Cheers
Mike

[Iain Goolager]

I assume you're talking small stillwater Mike.

The fish are never too small - you're just overgunned.

Here's a wee brown from Waulkmill earlier this year on very light tippet (which floated  ) and a size 21 parachute fly..............it was well received on a scorching day when the self respecting bow's were sunbathing. The 2 weight was taken from the car to target him and his brothers. This on a 5wt would have seemed absurd but it was cool on the 2 & would have been a revelation on a noodle weight.



small fish & light tackle aren't our enemy - the wind is

and if all else fails there's always golf

[Ben Dixon]

Mike,

I think you are right there.  My standard for a wild loch when fishing traditional flies from a boat is a 10' #4, if it's a bit blowy and I am fishing bigger flies I will use a four & a half or 5wt line to help with turn over.  I have not found a situation yet where I have had to go above a 6wt outfit for trout.

Cheers

Ben

[Barry Robertson]

Is it maybe just something the forum here is fixated with  ???
Whats wrong with a 10ft 7wt rod for boat fishing stillwaters??
A 10ft 7 wt is far better for the fish than a 9ft 4 wt, i can vouch for this as i have tried both funnily enough 
Light weight tackle is far better for the fight from a fish but in turn the more the fight the more stress you put on the fish!
I often hear that a 5 wt will get a fish in quicker than a 7wt - again i have tried this and that statement is rubbish!
Maybe for wild browns on the river a 3-5wt but on still waters surely a 6 wt should be a minimum 
Just my thoughts 

[Iain Goolager]

Bazil
Whats wrong with a 10ft 7wt rod for boat fishing stillwaters?? nothing - if you are going to push it like a Gondola

A 10ft 7 wt is far better for the fish than a 9ft 4 wt, i can vouch for this as i have tried both funnily enough  The fish actualy don't care for either  
Light weight tackle is far better for the fight from a fish but in turn the more the fight the more stress you put on the fish! I think we all agree that the less stress placed on a fish the better.
I often hear that a 5 wt will get a fish in quicker than a 7wt - again i have tried this and that statement is rubbish! Depends on your terminal tackle - I've fished both and the primary concern regarding 'horsability' is leader breaking or hook bending not the rods rating.Maybe for wild browns on the river a 3-5wt but on still waters surely a 6 wt should be a minimum. I've never felt compromised with these rod weights on the river

Did I ever mention ...ahum... the 3 1/2 lb Sea-Trout I caught on a 2wt? it came in as fast as it would have had I been weilding a 'normal' rod. Ok the rod was doubled up a few times but there was as much force imparted on the fish as I thought the leader could handle safely.

I agree a 6wt is a good all round weight and will handle 20+ dries or 1" copper tubes with the right complementing tackle.

Iain

[Robert MacDonald-Lewis]

My initial reaction to this question was that the size of the fish should not matter, the sense of achievement in catching a fish sound not depend on size.  However this is a very idealistic view and it would be a rare man who did not take greater enjoyment from catching a larger fish.  In this case I would say that the angler’s attitude is the problem.  Could it be that people are too used to commercial fisheries and have come to expect a certain amount of bang for their buck?

Taking a different approach to the question; a lighter outfit will make for a better fight from smaller fish and therefore I would agree that if someone complains about fish being too small they should adjust their gear.  Baz put across a very valid point, I had not considered what was better for the fish.  However I think the argument about line weights could provide enough discussion for a thread of its own.

Robbie

[Ben Dixon]

Hi Baz,

I use a 6wt for much of my salmon fishing, the average salmon would literally kick the shit out of a stocked rainbow as would a river brownie pound for pound so why is a 4 or 5wt not a suitable choice for stillwater rainbows in a river you are oftern fighting the current as well as the fish?  If a 6wt will will drag in a 9lb salmon in a few minutes with no issues then why do we need to go stiffer for rainbows? 
I think a 10' rod (or longer) from a boat is a good idea, the length gives you more control but I think the rod rating is more about what is being cast.  20' leaders, HiD lines and teams of bulky flies are not much fun on light lines and I don't know of anyone who makes a deep 7 / type 8 sink etc in anything under a 6wt so it would really have to be a 10'#7 or #8 rod.
I release with very few exceptions all my wild fish therefore like to get them back quickly, the stiffer the rod the easier you have to be on the fish if on lighter tippets or light hooks, as Iain rightly states these are what determines how hard you can be on a fish.  A lot has to do with the angler and their ability to  fight a fish, I think the average fishery owner would rather have a fish brought in a bit more slowly on a softer rod than have someone go at it with a poker and leave a fly and nylon stuck in the fish. If on small flies therefore fishing fine tippet, I reckon I could get a fish in faster on a softer / lighter rod as I would be able to exert more pressure without fear of snapping off.

Just my thoughts...


Cheers

Ben

[Iain Goolager]

Maybe for wild browns on the river a 3-5wt but on still waters surely a 6 wt should be a minimum. I've never felt compromised with these rod weights on the river

 sorry my post should have read...................I've never felt compromised with these rod weights on a stillwater

Iain

[Rob Brownfield]

Have to agree with Ben on this one, a soft, lighter rod allows much more "usable" pressure to be applied to a fish. You can really lay into a fish with lighter gear without the fear of breaking a leader or worse in my opinion, tearing the hook from the fishes mouth.

You have to be sensible though, its all about balancing the tackle (no good having 10 pound leaders on a 3 weight or indeed 3 pound leaders on an 8 weight), correct sized flies (again, a size 4 lure on a 3 weight etc etc) and having the confidence to actually bend the rod into the fish.

Unless that rod is bent, and bent well, you are not putting any pressure on the fish and thus its swimming around longer than it needs to. A longer, stiffer rod actually works against the angler.

[Iain Goolager]

and having the confidence to actually bend the rod into the fish.

yes Roberto,

confidence in knots, leader material, awareness of hook type (material thickness and shank length) are important when applying pressure but the rod itself should be capable of almost touching it's toes without concern