[Rob Brownfield]

Not sure if it should go here, but here goes...

I am building a switch rod and trying to work out what lines i should be using. There is plenty of info in the US, but it seems to be geared to deep fishinjg in fast flowing water. I want something more suited for UK applications (Mainly the Don)

The blank is a light one, rated a 5 weight, will be 11 feet when finished and i will be building it with a 11 inch foregrip and a 3" butt. I want to cast streamers, sculpins and weighted leeches/buggers and the like.

Any recomendations on lines. Some have suggested a Rio Outbound, Airflo 40+ or the new Airflo Compact Skagit. What is confusing is that although its rated a 5, many folk in the US say go up a line size or two if spey/switch casting.

Any thoughts on that?


Ben, will be picking your brains and booking some casting lessons

[Matt Henderson]

Rod,

Something I've been pondering myself.  If the rod blank has then the grain window will point you in the right line weight/size.  However not all rods will come with that from the manufacturer. 

I have searched in vain for something that explains it all in idiot sized steps.  All I've managed to work out (and I'm not even sure it's correct) is that the tips are included in the weight where as with shootings heads the weight of the tip is normally so small that it isn't an issue.  So with a skagit if you use a slower sinking tip then you need a cheater (intermediate or floating) to increase the head weight and effectively load the rod.

I have another few questions around about spey casting/line selection etc that I will ask over the next few days and hopefully they will prove useful for other numpties like me. 

Cheers

Matt

[Rob Brownfield]

thanks for the reply Matt...

Grain "window" is as follows :-

140 - 280g

Which means little to me

[Irvine Ross]

So with a skagit if you use a slower sinking tip then you need a cheater (intermediate or floating) to increase the head weight and effectively load the rod.

Matt

As I understand it the cheater is not needed to add weight to the line. Its function is to adjust the head length so that the head (plus cheater if required) is 3 -3.5 times the rod length.

All the Rio shooting heads have the grain weight specified on the Rio web site. So pick the weight to suit your rod, check the length and add cheater if required.

Dunno what you do if it's too long

Irvine

[Matt Henderson]

1 gram = 15.432 358 353 grain

hope that helps...

[David Norwich]

thanks for the reply Matt...

Grain "window" is as follows :-

140 - 280g

Which means little to me

Don't get bogged down by the technicalities Rob.

The original Skagit rods were very through action. They cast a line a bit like flicking an apple of a stick. Flick/lob. It isn't pretty, but it works.

The easiest way to work out if a line suits your rod (any rod) is to get an old double taper line one size heavier than the rod is rated for. Work the line out to a comfortable casting length and cut it right at the tip of the rod. Cut it exactly at the length you have outside the tip that you feel comfortable with holding it in the air during the cast without any forced athletics.
 
Take that length of line, coil it up and weigh it on a letter scale. The reading in grammas or grains is the weight of line you need for your rod. Write the weight down and keep it in a safe place. You will always be in no doubt about what line weight suits the rod, if you follow that simple method of matching line weight to rod. 

Armed with that knowledge, it is a simple job to buy the correct weight of Skagit line, or better still, make up your own custom Skagit lines by splicing line sections together to arrive at the overall belly weight needed to load that rod efficiently, or any other rod you own.

Regards,

David.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi guys

David's reply regarding line weights is spot on, great advice

Might be a couple of days before you get any useful feedback from Ben ( or me ) ...... this was the Scottish Sexyloops Gathering weekend, so we've kinda been out day and night and might take a while to recover!

Best wishes
Mike

PS: Our new rod went down very well this weekend by the way David, a different action compared to the distance rods, but it certainly held it's ground and it survived "the shootout" competition ...... Paul was almost managing to get the full Outcast WF5F line out with it

Paul casting the Barrio Outcast #5 rod and line .....

[David Norwich]

That is some serious rod loading! And a great photo!

Good to know that we build them to withstand the casting tecnique of Mr P.

I had completely forgot that meet was on. I had intended to come along. 

David.

[Dutchfly]

Wow, look at that! Interesting to see how he 'presses' the reel against his arm.

BTW, here's a video I came across in the Simms website.

http://www.simmsfishing.com/site/gallery/gallery_display.html?gallery_id=00003

We're off to fish near Ullapool next week, I'll send in a report on how we got along.

http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=nl&geocode=&q=Ullapool,+Verenigd+Koninkrijk&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=3.186013,10.777588&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Ullapool,+Verenigd+Koninkrijk&ll=58.065348,-5.387077&spn=0.086442,0.3368&t=h&z=12

CU

Jeroen

[Rob Brownfield]

Hello again David,
Thanks for the information. I understand the principle of working out the weight of the line having done this on unmarked blanks that i ahve built, but I was under the impression that line length was critical with Skagits, hence the need for "cheaters". Have I picked this up correctly?

Cheers
Rob

[David Norwich]

Hi Rob

It is no different to getting any line to work to your satisfaction with the rod. Nothing is critical. If you make it too short you might as well just go spinning. The cheaters are just there to let you tune the length to suit your casting style. Personally the point of having such ultra short belly lines is a bit lost on me. I find a short belly spey line with the tip cut back and a loop formed to attach tips, is a much nicer/smoother line setup to cast. It does exactly the same job and allows you to mend the shooting line at distance so you can control the path of the fly line belly and the fly through the pool better.

David.

[Rob Brownfield]

Hi David,
I hear what you are saying. Because it is a five weight switch rod spey lines are way too heavy, the lightest I have seen in the UK is an 8/9.

I am going to try Mikes Outcast line as I found i could "switch cast" quite well with a 9 foot Orvis ZG on Sunday...so I am hoping if I mark the line at its optimon casting point the line will save my day.

Have you tried Mikes line? Would be interesting to hear what you think of it. I really like it now that I have given it a proper go on the water.

[David Norwich]

Hi Rob,

Yes indeed.  Mike and I designed the Outcast rod to cast Mike's very good Outcast line. It casts a treat.

I use one myself now. My one is a nice prototype amber colour. 

David.

[Rob Brownfield]

Ahhh..I had a cast of the amber coloured prototypes..I liked that colout

As for the rod..I realised my mistake in that I should have realised that the rod and line were designed to work together.

I am a little slow this morning as I am still thawing out from bobbing around Mikes place in a float tube yesterday...blood is slowly returning to my brain!

On a seperate note, I need to give you a ring and speak about Pike fly rod blanks again, last time was informative, this time it will be a challenge

[David Norwich]

 I'll look forward to that.  Will the challenge be for me or for you?  ???

David.