[Matt Henderson]

Their recent restrictions on numbers of fish killed,low water spinning and number of treble hooks along with total catch and release of Spring fish are all good conservation measures.

I'm not sure I've seen any restriction on low water spinning.  I saw somebody holding a picture of a fish at one point in the season and asked how on earth they had managed to cast a fly over the weekend (which was particularly windy) to which the proud reply was "Oh i used the spinning rod" when it very definately wasn't high enough water for spinning...

[Graham Ritchie]

The rule certainly didnt seem to be observed down at Kintore, probably because no one was enforcing it.

[Matt Henderson]

I think that's probably the biggest part of the problem.

[Rob Brownfield]

I am having a seperate discussion (ok, read fight) about the Protection Order, provision of tickets and European Laws regarding the rights and wrongs of either refusing tickets or charging more/less because of someones location.

There is a law that states that you cannot discriminate against someone because of where they live. This includes charging someone more for , as an example, entry into a cinema because they live further away than someone else. I wonder if the same applies to the council tickets?

I can see why they do it, stock protection for example, but is it legal to do so?

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Rob

I could be wrong, but I think that some of these things go back to historical reasons.

For example, in the case of Inverurie, I believe the fishings were gifted to the people of the town at some stage and were part of the common good fund. Not so long ago, I can remember when there was a 3 tier fishing permit system, with a price for residents of the town, residents of the shire and one for visitors. Although residents of Inverurie perhaps had the right to fish without paying, we were happy to make a contribution to the running of the water via the residents of Inverurie permit.

The "residents of Inverurie" permit has disappeared from the options in recent years and I'm sure the "residents of Aberdeenshire" will follow ........ and the "visitor/standard" season prices will continue to rise

Best wishes
Mike

[Matt Henderson]

Hi Rob

I could be wrong, but I think that some of these things go back to historical reasons.

For example, in the case of Inverurie, I believe the fishings were gifted to the people of the town at some stage and were part of the common good fund. Not so long ago, I can remember when there was a 3 tier fishing permit system, with a price for residents of the town, residents of the shire and one for visitors. Although residents of Inverurie perhaps had the right to fish without paying, we were happy to make a contribution to the running of the water via the residents of Inverurie permit.

The "residents of Inverurie" permit has disappeared from the options in recent years and I'm sure the "residents of Aberdeenshire" will follow ........ and the "visitor/standard" season prices will continue to rise

Best wishes
Mike

I have no objection to the residents of Inverurie getting it cheaper or the residents of Aberdeenshire for that matter given that they are the ones who pay their taxes to Aberdeenshire council.  I just wish Aberdeen City Council had a similar scheme.

[Duncan McRae]

The rule certainly didnt seem to be observed down at Kintore, probably because no one was enforcing it.

I might be wrong but i get the impression that the bailiffs are not enforcing the rule.

I think that the no spin markers are a good idea but at Kintore they are set far too high.The Inverurie markers are set at a far more sensible height.
The council manager in charge of the fishings told me that he was aiming to set the markers at 8' above normal summer level but it's very clear that they are set way above this.
I feel that this is unfair to anglers who enjoy spinning,particularly some of our older anglers who are simply not able to fish a double handed fly rod.

I feel that if the markers had been set at a sensible level then most anglers would have accepted the new rules as a good conservation measure.


Duncan

[Dave Mundie]

How deep is the water at Kintore in the summer or have i read this wrong 

I might be wrong but i get the impression that the bailiffs are not enforcing the rule.

I think that the no spin markers are a good idea but at Kintore they are set far too high.The Inverurie markers are set at a far more sensible height.
The council manager in charge of the fishings told me that he was aiming to set the markers at 8' above normal summer level but it's very clear that they are set way above this.
I feel that this is unfair to anglers who enjoy spinning,particularly some of our older anglers who are simply not able to fish a double handed fly rod.

I feel that if the markers had been set at a sensible level then most anglers would have accepted the new rules as a good conservation measure.


Duncan

if it's 8 feet that's an awful lot of water

Dave

[Ben Dixon]

I feel I must respond to this.....

The bailiffs did put a good number of anglers off the water for spinning when it was below the mark during the 2009 season but they cannot be everywhere at all times. I  think the bailiffs are doing a pretty good job considering the area that they have to cover.

Spinning below the mark can be a problem at Kintore.  A lot of the water is not what would be regarded as good fly water particularly when it is low and the flow is not that great, a small fly needs to be worked and spinning is far less work for the angler.  Kintore does fish well with the fly in low to medium waters but followng a 28g Toby down a pool does not IMO increase the fly anglers chances due to the disturbance caused by an ounce of metal being lobbed repeatedly at the water.  Other way round, a small double creates little disturbance when cast into slow flowing calm pools, it does not spoil the chances of other anglers following down the pool.  On this basis I don't think that the spinning marks should be lowered.

Rob,

I thought I had answered your questions re the PO, if not then please drop me a PM.

Cheers

Ben

[Duncan McRae]

Dave

There's some very deep pools at Kintore but none of them justify an 8 feet no spin limit!!
A mistake on my part.Should obviously be 8 inches.

Duncan

[Iain Goolager]

The maximum of 1 treble per lure is going to be a bit of a scream.
If it's difficult to police the no spinning when the water is below the line rule (where a one eyed midget with a tick could tell at a distance if someone was using a spinning or fly rod) then what would be the baillifs chances of enforcing this?

Also would it not be more advantageous to remove the treble hook from game fishing use? why not use lures/spinners/rapalas with doubles, sorry A double.

I personally don't like to spin (for any species) as I don't feel as in touch with either the lure or the fish as when fly fishing but appreciate that Kintore (for example) has a large core of Salmon spinning anglers.......if the water height marker was felt to be incorrectly set then surely there are ways and means of discussing or altering the setting by reasoned debate. Saying F**k it - I'll decide or I've always done it this way doesn't cut it for any rule in these times of fish conservation.

I think permit outlets have a responsibility to ensure the angler is 100% aware of the rules (which is ok for the likes of Sloans but not so easy for the little old lady in the Post Office ). I know laminated notices were erected when the hight markers were installed but these didn't last long 



Iain

[Matt Henderson]

I  think the bailiffs are doing a pretty good job considering the area that they have to cover.

you're right Ben we're all being a bit hard on them given the miles of river bank that exist.  If it was an estate then they would have more control because you would think that somebody from the estate would be checking to see what the rods were doing.  The council water is a bit different I guess. 

Iain thats also a good point about the people that have bought tickets from the post office.

[Ben Dixon]

I think it is quite simple really, you sign something to say that you understand the rules when you buy the ticket, the rules are clearly printed on the ticket.  If buying a ticket over the net you tick a box to say you understand the rules.  Permit outlets should ask the angler if they are able to read and understand the rule, if the angler has reading difficulties then the permit outlet should read the rules to the angler before the angler signs to understand them, I doubt those with reading difficulties would be able to get to the point of being able to purchase over the net.  Rules are rules, break them and loose the right to fish on that water permenantly, if you do not like the rules of a particular beat then go fish somewhere else. 

Iain,

The treble thing has bugged me for a while.  I only fish with doubles as many places now insist on them and as I fish a few different rivers it makes sense to me only to tie on duble hooks.  When fishing tubes I use Salar doubles, these are as heavy as most trebles commonly used for tubes so do not make the fly swim much differently.  I will debarb most of my hooks when fishing in the spring.  Kelts have to go back legally and all springers on the Don should be returned as requested by the DDSFB conservation code however, the jury is till out for me whether a micro barbed double may cause less damage to fish than a than a debarbed hook which will move about more whilst playing a fish.  I don't think I loose any more fish when fishing barbless hooks.

Cheers

Ben

[Fisher]

I dont follow the comment by MDH re Aberdeen Council. They dont actually own any fishings. They did a few centuries ago when the fishings on lower Dee and Don were given to the citizens of Aberdeen by various charters by the ruling monarchs of the time.

Unfortunately the Council sold them all off as they were hard up at the time. With the passing of the Centuries nothing has changed - they are still hard up but now have no fishings to sell so are instead putting up the car parking charges