[Ben Dixon]

Hi Ben,

Yep, there's a few reasons come to mind:
The same question you ask applies to someone casting on a water during the open season - No written permission therefore poaching (who can be sure they are not casting a fly) & will be chased off by the water by baliffs.
You say you were in the Don - Risk of damaging precious Redds/eggs which will have already taken a pounding this year, the levels have been that high the fish were spawning in the shallows this year.
Disturbing spawning salmon.
Casual observer may well report to police/baliff someone poaching which will require following up under the protection order.
No licence to fish, permits are only valid for the season, don't know if ur a riparian owner but if not, an angler has no written permission from the owner to be on the river with a rod.
Sets a president if allowed - How many people might we see on the rivers just 'practicing' There are still many unscrupulous people (I won't call them anglers) out there who might just tie on a lure to see 'whats in there'.
Plenty of stillwaters open to practice casting (or in the park) & plenty of time once the season opens in February.

oh aye, one more, it just doesn't seem right to me, leave the rivers & the fish alone & let them get on with their spawning in peace

I appreciate your concern but, I do have written permission to be there under the terms of the lease of my house during the season and permission to use the water for teaching / practice at any time of year, as I am sure you are aware, there is no law prohibiting me from doing what I am doing.

And, I am more than capable of identifying areas that are possible spawning sites, where I practice the substrate does not provide suitable habitat for spawning, heavily silted due to bank errosion and cattle drinks.

Where I am, it is VERY unlikely that anyone will see me and I am not in breach of any fisheries law, I never have any flies in my possession so, considering I have permission from the riparian owner to be there and not in breach of any law I do not see how anyone could ask me to leave the water.  On the subject of the PO, I am currently secretary of the RDBTIA so once I have investigated myself I will be sure to send you the full report!!  And, how do you know that the area I use for practice is even covered by the PO?

I hope this addresses your concerns.

Ben

[Mike Barrio]

Hi folks

I would not like this to turn in to any type of heated discussion, but at the same time I also appreciate any concerns. I have been to the location concerned, I know that Ben takes great care of that location, has permission to be there and does not go wading all over the river ........ this is purely casting practice and tuition with a piece of wool on the end of the line.

Nobody wants to risk damaging salmon redds/eggs. If this were the main concern of this discussion, then perhaps we should be thinking about the way we fish for grayling in the winter, on rivers like the Tummel and Tweed etc etc?

Best wishes
Mike

[Matt Henderson]

Hi folks

I would not like this to turn in to any type of heated discussion, but at the same time I also appreciate any concerns. I have been to the location concerned, I know that Ben takes great care of that location, has permission to be there and does not go wading all over the river ........ this is purely casting practice and tuition with a piece of wool on the end of the line.

Nobody wants to risk damaging salmon redds/eggs. If this were the main concern of this discussion, then perhaps we should be thinking about the way we fish for grayling in the winter, on rivers like the Tummel and Tweed etc etc?

Best wishes
Mike

Mike

I think its also worth people bearing in mind that people who either are new to the forum or aren't aware of what people do/who people are, can take things the wrong way.  Knowing that Ben is a qualified casting instructor to me meant that I didn't think he would be so stupid as to be in/on the river casting without the required permission or knowing the rules. 

But its Christmas time so goodwill to all men/women/fish.

cheers

matt

[Ben Dixon]

Matt,

I hear what you're saying, very interesting that this has cropped up here at the same time as there is a thread about the very same subject on "another forum" which I am banned from viewing (although I have never been a member) from both home & work.  I have a suspicsion that there are gremlins at work again.   

 

Ben

[Iain Goolager]

My name is Iain and I'm an alcoholic & unless someone is in the witness protection scheme I see no need to hide ones true identity.
I'm sure this is all a storm in a teacup from a well meaning like minded angler - welcome to the forum Piscator.

Iain
42
Kintore
Height & weight will be divulged by pm only

[Piscator]

Hi Ben, no gremlins here & nope, I don’t know where you practice your casting but since the PO is from upper Strathdon to Balgownie bridge I guessed you cast a line somewhere in between.

I hear what you’re sayin, I could take a canoe & paddle up & down the NE rivers all year round perfectly legally, but I wouldn’t cos I understand the potential harm that could do in the summer antagonising anglers (me!) & in winter disturbing spawning fish, but some don’t understand or just don’t care! One thing that’s for sure is, disturbing redds/damaging eggs is illegal.
I guess you’re right that there is no legal reason as you have the permission of a riparian owner rather that someone who holds the rights to fish (during the season) & you have the knowledge to choose the area for practicing with care, but does that make it ok? I’m not so sure. This is a difficult one but to me an angler on the river during the closed season just looks out of place.

Anyway tight lines (but not during the closed season of course )

Thanks for the welcome Iain, I'm in Kintore too but haven't fished the town water for years

Cheers
Stewart

[Sandy Nelson]

I have been reluctant to join this one as it is a very tricky area

Sorry Ben but i have to say i agree with Stewart. I know you have the knowledge and skill that will not cause any damage to the fish or environment.
My problem would be, that in some eyes you may be setting a precedent that means other people without the same skill and knowledge will try the same thing
and that is not a good situation.
You have a quite unique set of circumstances, and it could very easily be misinterpreted by Joe public as the green light for "casting". So even though you are in an area where it does no harm, someone else might not be and either end up in a lot of trouble or cause some serious damage without realising it.
I think your position within the Don committee circles that you participate, compound this ,as people will expect that what you are doing is acceptable.
The issue is not what YOU are doing specifically, but what it may mean to other people and the message they receive.

You bring so many great attributes to all the things you are involved with, i would hate for something that is fundamentally unnecessary to detract from all the good that you bring.

Just my 2p worth

Have a great christmas and happy new year

Sandy

[Ben Dixon]

Guys,

I take on board your concerns and I am not in view of anyone when on the water, casting in a very public such as at the bridge at Kintore would not be something that would even occur to me.  The fact remains that I am not causing any damage to redds and am not in anyway doing anything even remotely illegal.  I personally see no issue with any angler using a stretch of water for practice during the close season provided they have permission to be there and they are not causing any damage.  After all, anglers for the most part generally have the best interests of a fishery at heart, particularly if it is their local and regular fishery.  I would like to think that anyone "casting" would not go blindly marching into the river in areas that they should not be and where they could be causing damage.  I do not see how my association with the river has any bearing on what I do in relation to my practice and I would simply not be on the water without permission from the landowner and would not advise anyone else to put themselves in that position.  There are a few spots on the water I have access to that I will not use at this time of year even though they would be useful in certain winds because I suspect but do not know that they are spawning areas, the river bed simply looks suitable for spawning so I do not go there. 

The point you are making Sandy does not really hold for me, there are waters where anglers are actually fishing during the game fishing close season infact many of our best grayling fisheries are also superb salmonid fisheries, do we ban winter grayling fishing for Joe public or at least Joe public who does not have a basic knowledge of salmonid spawning habitat?  Or should we just ban grayling fishing outwith the trout and salmon season?

As far as canoes go, yes they can be a pain and a voluntary national code between all water users would be a good thing, with that would come some education probably for all concerned but, everyone has a right of access to our waterways provided they are not in breach of any law, and have the requisute permissions, that is plain & simple fact.  As anglers we have to live with canoes and they have to live with us, I do think they should be registered and contribute to river maintanance.  How this would be effected I do not know.  From their POV it must be a pain to come out of the flow (read head of a nice pool) and paddle round some nut stood in the river.  Not come across them on the Don but, on the Dee they seem pretty decent about giving room although I doubt they are looing for redds when entering or leaving the river.

Merry Christmas to all.

Ben

[Sandy Nelson]

The point you are making Sandy does not really hold for me, there are waters where anglers are actually fishing during the game fishing close season infact many of our best grayling fisheries are also superb salmonid fisheries, do we ban winter grayling fishing for Joe public or at least Joe public who does not have a basic knowledge of salmonid spawning habitat?  Or should we just ban grayling fishing outwith the trout and salmon season?

No grayling in the Don

[Ben Dixon]

No grayling in the Don

I did not say there was Sandy    I was referring to waters that held grayling, I thought that was clear in the post.  I fail to see how the Don should be banned from having feet on the river bed when anglers are actually casting hooks into other rivers at this time of year.  Where is the difference?

[Sandy Nelson]

Its called a closed season

I do not see how my association with the river has any bearing on what I do in relation to my practice

Its about responsibility, i'm a big believer in leading by example.
IMHO this isn't a great example, sorry but there it is

Plus you could practice on grass, its not essential to be in the water. Anyway its Christmas and i'm not getting into a debate.
Busy watching a guy cut my grass with a petrol mower, he's been at it since 0830 Some things are just plain weird

Have a good one

Sandy

[Ben Dixon]

Not possible to practice Speys effectively on the grass, overhead practice I prefer to do on the grass, hard to set a tape measure, hoops or cones out on the water!!  Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one   

Still can't see my grass, under a good bit of snow!

Cheers

Ben

[Sandy Nelson]

Merry Christmas