[Iain Goolager]

Jimminy,

Any pattern using more than one bead (two small small beads tied perpendracula to the hook shank is accepted  ) is a crass abuse of our devolved rights to tie flies.

Any fish feasting on something from Beaverbrooks window deserves to get eaten!

Iain

[Mike Barrio]

Photo of one of these beaded bloodworms please gentlemen

Two of my fly suppliers do some that sound like what you are discussing, I've been daft enough to have ordered them in the past ...... and they ended up in the swingbin

Cheers
Mike

PS: The simplest of Apps bloodworm are the ones that produce the most fish. Small ones with very fine rubber ( legs / arms?)

[Rob Brownfield]

I am supprised the Apps is not banned on every water...Terrible "fly"...anything that wraps itself around a fish and swims to the side before flipping it onto the bank is wrong Looks like a HUGE great fish eating beastie

But the Apps does look just like the real thing 

[Mike Barrio]

Yep, that's the one

Usually tied with the legs way too short, but that ones not bad, the movement seems to be the attraction and short legs don't move enough. To improve on the above version, get rid of all the beads, or maybe keep just one as a hotspot ..... and use a small barbless hook and the thinnest rubber you can find which will improve the mobility, buzzer type hooks are good for this fly.

Cheers
Mike

[Barry Robertson]

Photo of one of these beaded bloodworms please gentlemen

Two of my fly suppliers do some that sound like what you are discussing, I've been daft enough to have ordered them in the past ...... and they ended up in the swingbin

Cheers
Mike

PS: The simplest of Apps bloodworm are the ones that produce the most fish. Small ones with very fine rubber ( legs / arms?)

[/glow]

This is only an opinion of course Mike and not a fact 
Not to be controversial but i think the apps with all the legs are popular for a reason, but again its all down to self confidence at the end of the day!
If you feel that a skimpy bloodworm is the best for you then skimpy it is but on there day a big apps is just as deadly 
Best to have them both in your box 

[Barry Robertson]

Here is a fact!
The top rod at this years Sharps at Inch was won by someone fishing a leggy apps under a bung 

[Mike Barrio]

Yep, that's the one

Usually tied with the legs way too short, but that ones not bad, the movement seems to be the attraction and short legs don't move enough. To improve on the above version, get rid of all the beads, or maybe keep just one as a hotspot ..... and use a small barbless hook and the thinnest rubber you can find which will improve the mobility, buzzer type hooks are good for this fly.

Cheers
Mike

Hi Baz

Yes, as per above quote, IMVHO the fly is more productive when it is "leggy"

There are way too many flies nowadays that include multiple beads, polystyrene and foam etc in them. I personally would have no problem with this if the folk that fish with them could be 100% sure that they won't break off and leave the fly in the fish ...... but obviously this is not the case.

This is why flies like boobies, sugar cubes, propellors and foam daddies etc are not allowed on most waters and to be honest, most fishery managers were reasonably OK with allowing anglers to use "bungs/indicators" for fishing with buzzers ( myself included ) but with the recent surge of fishing Cats, Fritz, Bunny Leeches, Yellow Dancers, Apps Bloodworms, Blobs, WSWs and many other lures under a "Bung/indicator" ......... I assure you that we are all seriously considering stopping "Bung/indicator" fishing on our waters altogether

Best wishes
Mike

[Ben Dixon]

There are way too many flies nowadays that include multiple beads, polystyrene and foam etc in them. I personally would have no problem with this if the folk that fish with them could be 100% sure that they won't break off and leave the fly in the fish ...... but obviously this is not the case.
This is why flies like boobies, sugar cubes, propellors and foam daddies etc are not allowed on most waters and to be honest, most fishery managers were reasonably OK with allowing anglers to use "bungs/indicators" for fishing with buzzers ( myself included ) but with the recent surge of fishing Cats, Fritz, Bunny Leeches, Yellow Dancers, Apps Bloodworms, Blobs, WSWs and many other lures under a "Bung/indicator" ......... I assure you that we are all seriously considering stopping "Bung/indicator" fishing on our waters altogether

Hi Mike,
What in your opinion constitutes an indicator or bung and is Haddo totally "foam free" or is it just boobies that are banned?  Not trying to be  controversial here but I am fairly sure I could tie a Klink or G & H sedge big enough to support a gold head blob, a Klink with a large yellow & pink post would be as visible as a fish pimp or thingamabollocks indicator.  Is it the method that is the issue for you or the "hardware" usually used by those fishing the method, eg foam flies?  I would ban blue or red hooks but there again, I am bitter & twisted 

Baz, PM me your adress and I will send you something on condition that you give them a review and we get some pics.

Cheers

Ben

[Jay Scott]

I agree... New Zealand style has by far been my most productive method this year and somehow using an indicator  seemed to put the fish off. Got a good amount on the dry fly too  . Sedgehog seems to work well however the newer sparser flies dont work as well 


Jay

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Mike,
What in your opinion constitutes an indicator or bung and is Haddo totally "foam free" or is it just boobies that are banned?  Not trying to be  controversial here but I am fairly sure I could tie a Klink or G & H sedge big enough to support a gold head blob, a Klink with a large yellow & pink post would be as visible as a fish pimp or thingamabollocks indicator.  Is it the method that is the issue for you or the "hardware" usually used by those fishing the method, eg foam flies?  I would ban blue or red hooks but there again, I am bitter & twisted 

Baz, PM me your adress and I will send you something on condition that you give them a review and we get some pics.

Cheers

Ben

Hi Ben

Anything that you add to your kit to act as an indicator that is not a fly would more or less sum it up I guess

I have always been pretty open minded on this subject Ben and have tried not to put too many limitations on folks enjoyment of the sport ..... "live and let live" Currently, Boobies, flickers, spinners and propellor type flies are not allowed within the rules at Haddo, but I also try to explain the problems associated with using multiple beads, polystyrene and foam etc to anglers whenever the rules are discussed in an effort to reduce their use.

The issues are mainly to do with fish health and condition Ben, nobody likes to catch fish with damaged mouths or that are out of condition due to blocked stomachs. Striking too hard with overgunned rods is a very common problem associated with these issues.

I'm glad you mention Klinks and G&H Sedges ( I'll add Sedgehogs ) ...... as for some reason, when folk adopt similar fishing tactics by using a buoyant fly, eg fishing "New Zealand Style", they do not fish in such an aggressive fashion and in my experience they do not appear to harm the fish so much.

This is a huge topic Ben and not one that I can answer easily on the forum, but suffice it to say that this is as much about attitudes towards the fish as anything else

Best wishes
Mike

[clark]

WOW! well i see i've kicked up quite a storm here  I personally am giulty of using foam indicators but i only have used enough foam to carry the flies and no more. I remember a fishing session with hamish when the fish were hammering bloodworms on haddo and it was much more enjoyable when using a dry fly because you could see the fish coming up to take a sniff at the dry and it was really thrilling 

clark

[Graeme Gauld]

I assure you that we are all seriously considering stopping "Bung/indicator" fishing on our waters altogether
Mike i have to say that if it happens it wont come quick enough for me
myself and the fishing club i am a member of apply our own rules ie No bung/indicators, boobies allowed at any of our outings
, boobies for the damage they can cause toe the fish
bung/indicators because that is not fly fishing.

[Rob Brownfield]

I started to use indicators when nymphing on the river, purely because I was fishing "ruffled" water and could not see the line in the gloom.

I tried it twice on stillwaters...and it was devistatingly effective...so went back to my normal cast and hope

But..I have a few questions about the method. (stillwater only)

Is it effective because of the way the flies fish, ie, at 3 depths, held in place by the "bung" ?

or

Is it effective because more "takes" are seen and therefore it seems the method is more effective?

Also, as its impossible for a fish to take a fly without the bung moving, bobbing or going under, does it not mean that it is less likely that a fish will take a fly deep. Without the bung a fish can move some distance before the fly line would move, especially if its moving towards you.

[Barry Robertson]

I also agree that bungs should be banned and people should learn to fish with a floater and see takes for themselves!
Its becoming more like coarse fishing every day, now those thingymabobers are selling like hot cakes and thats practically bubble float fishing.
Dont get me wrong i think they work well as the fly is static at a certain depth and fish seem to love that


Anyway whos is doing an APPS step by step 

[Robert MacDonald-Lewis]

Personally I do not like using an indicator, for me it’s just not what fly fishing is about.  I hasten to add that this is purely my opinion and I do not think any lees of those who use this technique, each to his own.

I can see the attraction in the technique as it appears to be the ideal way of presenting buzzers at specific depths.  Of course this can also be achieved by using a suitable dry fly.  Mikes’ comment that people using a dry fly instead of an indicator tend not fish as aggressively was very interesting as there would seem to be little difference between the two techniques.

At the risk of opening a can of worms I would suggest that the problem may not be the technique but the person on the other end of the line.  If the use of indicators was band would the people who had been using indicator not just start fishing with a buoyant fly instead?