Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Iain Goolager

Re: Grayling
« Reply #50 on: 29/10/2009 at 21:08 »
Quote
stocking coarse fish into your precious rivers

How to alienate people in one easy step


cerbfan

Re: Grayling
« Reply #51 on: 29/10/2009 at 21:12 »
How to alienate people in one easy step



Well the 'plenty of coarse fisheries down South' comment was not entirely friendly and welcoming either. I admit though slightly childish and I apologise.

Iain Goolager

Re: Grayling
« Reply #52 on: 29/10/2009 at 21:14 »
graciously accepted
 :wink
Iain

Peter McCallum

Re: Grayling
« Reply #53 on: 29/10/2009 at 21:57 »
Hey guys wasn't there an ice age a few thousand years ag, l;and bridges & all that?? so after the ice age where did the fish come from?? So really all fish in our rivers are non native..... it's simply a matter of time span. Live and let live eh??

I fish for trout because I enjoy that area of the sport. Salmon could be considered as a nuisance as far as I'm concerned and so should be exterminated. Trout similarly, as are coarse fish depending on your taste. We don't piss, moan and throw our toys out the pram about rainbows do we? The whole reason this forum exists is because Mike makes a business out of an 'Introduced' species.

As I said in an earlier post I am led to beleive that Grayling(remember them in the title) were introduced as a food fish along with carp. So lets stop pissing each other off because we are holier than thou about 'our' fishing. Theres plenty of other forums for that on line.

Kev Danby

Re: Grayling
« Reply #54 on: 29/10/2009 at 22:05 »
As a coarse fisher turned fluff chucker this whole business of fly v bait fishing leaves me baffled we all share the same passion and yes there are unsavoury aspects to both styles of the sport. As much as I would dearly love to get the float tackle out and fish a stick float or waggler (some of black pot just screams a waggler) and yes these methods would be extremely effective for trout.

Accept that this will not happen and enjoy fishing the fly and the freedom that brings you certainly cover more water. Sure I miss coarse fishing but there are options up here rather than orchill or maggiscroft try glen of rothes, Moray flyfisher, Kev visits this site and I'm sure he will welcome new faces

I agree perhaps there is opportunity for a land locked coarse fishery in this area comparing this to the cental belt fisheries is somewhat missguided do we really have a sufficient density of population to make this viable :z8

Adapt to what the area gives and just go out and enjoy your fishing.

This thread was about grayling and the options available I really need to get my butt into gear and take up the offer of Mr Doyles invite and yes I'll take both the float and fly gear.



Apologies for the rant

Iain Goolager

Re: Grayling
« Reply #55 on: 29/10/2009 at 22:11 »

Hi Kev,

I went on one of Jims outings and it was spentabulous. That's when I caught my first Grayling on the Czech Nymph. Beautiful fish she was.
Guys come from far and wide - some virgins and some experienced but all made us welcome and shared valuable info.

Highly recommended

Iain

Jim Eddie

Re: Grayling
« Reply #56 on: 29/10/2009 at 22:16 »
No guys its not about Ice Ages or native or non native fish or Fly is better than bait , I mostly fly fish, but have no qualms about trotting a maggot for Grayling, or doing a bit of worming or Sea Fishing.
Neither is it a snob thing that Salmon should take precedence etc my stance is that nature has not put Grayling in Scottish rivers north of Forfar , and as much as I'd like to fish for winter Grayling locally I do not think we should be interfering with nature.
Look at the problems man has caused introducing cane toads in Australia , Grey squirrels in the Uk etc etc

 :z18

Jim      

Paul Rankine

Re: Grayling
« Reply #57 on: 29/10/2009 at 22:31 »
Hi again,
             Peter , this is really not a snob thing . It's a conservation thing.

The introduction of coarse fish , usually illegally , up until very recently , has had and will have far reaching effects on our freshwater salmonid fisheries. why else would Govt. depts. be introducing new legislation in order to protect these fisheries and be engaged in research in order to determine the effects of these introductions.

There are many many examples in freshwater (and marine ) environments of the sometimes disastrous effects of the efforts of "well meaning" individuals or indeed through total ignorance or accident.

It's called Fisheries Management .

Peter McCallum

Re: Grayling
« Reply #58 on: 29/10/2009 at 22:51 »
If it's a fisheries management thing paul don't use the type of language you used, use fisheries management speak. Your tone was condescending and quite rude. Not what I would expect from you.

Ben Dixon

Re: Grayling
« Reply #59 on: 30/10/2009 at 01:13 »

Adapt to what the area gives and just go out and enjoy your fishing.


I agree Kev, totally.

From a FM point of view, we know bugger all about the Don or the fish in it, until we do introducing any further species would be a bad idea until we know a bit more about what we have, that includes any form of stocked trout.  The Don is first & foremost a game fishery despite it containing coarse fish here and there, opening it up for coarse angling would not be a good idea IMO, I do not believe that there are sufficient numbers of coarse fish present to be able to target only them effectively and there would be a large number of out of season game fish caught by those targeting minority species.  Not a snobbery thing, there are several rvers in Scotland with a good head of coarse species and some of those rivers have, in recent times, produced records.  Anglers travel to the Dee from across the globe in search of springers and anglers travel some considerable distance to fish for the large brown trout that the Don is famous for, that is what the Don is about for me, trout.  Nothing against Coarse fish or Coarse anglers but the Don is not a Coarse fishery although it does contain very modest numbres of coarse fish, does it not make sense to go to one of Scotlands rivers that hold good numbers of Coarse fish such as the middle reaches of the Annan to go catch them there?

Cheers

Ben

Irvine Ross

Re: Grayling
« Reply #60 on: 30/10/2009 at 10:10 »
Adapt to what the area gives and just go out and enjoy your fishing.

I'll second that.

I'm beginning to wonder if "cerbfan" isn't our old friend "Dwight David" back again in new guise. He certain seems determined to push all the contentious buttons and hijack this thread.

Irvine


Jim Doyle

Re: Grayling
« Reply #61 on: 30/10/2009 at 10:12 »
So anyone coming grayling fishing???? :z13 :z13 :z13

Rob Brownfield

Re: Grayling
« Reply #62 on: 30/10/2009 at 10:49 »
I really struggle with the attitudes of some anglers up here. There seems to be some kind of "fear" about coarse fish and coarse anglers, some of it is undoubted snobbery, and that cannot be denied, some of it is misguided beliefs, much of it just heresay. (Pike for example)

I most certainly do not want to see the Don or Dee stocked with coarse fish as I understand that both rivers have a very important place in game angling history. With scientists telling us the weather patterns are changing, how viable will these rivers be in 10/20/30 years time? I fully support the conservation of Salmon however I sometimes wonder if man is playing a game it cannot win.

Pauls comment:-

"It depends whether we want to keep our trout and salmon fisheries as trout and salmon fisheries or let them deteriorate into mixed salmonid/coarse fisheries . "

Well, this is exactly what I am talking about in my first paragraph. How can you say the river has "deteriorated" in to a coarse fishery? You are saying coarse fish are inferior and so are the anglers. The economy certainly does not agree with you. EFTTA has consistantly said over the last 5 years or so that coarse fishing brings 4-6 times the amount of money into the economy than game angling does.

I have fished the Test, the Wye, the Frome, and even the Tay..all fantastic game and coarse rivers. I most certainly do not think these rivers have deteriated, quite the opposite infact. (was the Tay not the venue for the World championships ?) Some may argue that since coarse anglers have been let onto these rivers the game angling has improved due to more food going in (maggots etc), and less pressure on the game fish as game anglers try there hand for other species. There is also the cross learning that goes on. Coarse anglers have always returned there fish, and many game anglers have learnt correct fish handling and catch and release from coarse anglers/coarse angling programs on tv etc. Lastly on this point, there is an unfounded fear that coarse anglers will take trout and salmon for the pot. Go down to Loch Awe in the summer and see how many trout anglers are using bubble floats and maggots and taking acrrier bags full of trout away with them. The coarse anglers are not wanting the trout.

As for a coarse fishery up here, why not? I consistantly bump into game anglers who fancy trying for something different. I work with guys from england that switched to game angling when moving to scotland, but would love to sit and watch a float for a few hours (as did I). There is a very large population of anglers up here that come from a coarse background or who watch the likes of Matt Hayes, John Bailey or even John Wilson on TV and who would like to fish for something different every now and then.


Actually..i have just re read all of that..and I cannot believe in this day and age that this conversation is even taking place.  :z8 ???

Rob Brownfield

Re: Grayling
« Reply #63 on: 30/10/2009 at 10:52 »
So anyone coming grayling fishing???? :z13 :z13 :z13

YES!!  :z18

Noel Kelly

Re: Grayling
« Reply #64 on: 30/10/2009 at 17:07 »

Actually..i have just re read all of that..and I cannot believe in this day and age that this conversation is even taking place.  :z8 ???


I agree, and even worse taking place again.

Barry Robertson

Re: Grayling
« Reply #65 on: 30/10/2009 at 18:12 »
My first grayling day on the earn this year is the 15th nov. Its a social day that allows folk to have a go with out being under pressure. The cost is £6 this includes breakfast ,lunch and afternoon snacks. Its a good day I thinl ian can confirm this.  If any one wants more details drop me a pm .  jim

I will be joining you this year jim, anyone else intrested?

Jim Eddie

Re: Grayling
« Reply #66 on: 30/10/2009 at 18:23 »
I'd Like to but its a bit of a trek from the Blue Toon  :roll

Paul Rankine

Re: Grayling
« Reply #67 on: 30/10/2009 at 18:27 »
HI,
       Rob , I,ve stated my thoughts  and most folks on this Forum know exactly , by now, where you are coming from on the subject. No further comment as it will undoubtedly be a waste of my time.
 
Jim,
      Could you put me down as well for the 15th November please . Thanks.

Jedi Jim , If you can get to Ellon I'll take you down and back . I think it must be my turn !

Peter,
         Sorry if I caused you any offence . None intended mate.

Ben,
       Well put.

Paul.
 

Barry Robertson

Re: Grayling
« Reply #68 on: 30/10/2009 at 19:29 »
Look forward to seeing you both on the 15th Paul and Jim  :wink

Jim Eddie

Re: Grayling
« Reply #69 on: 31/10/2009 at 21:39 »
OK sounds like a plan , see you then Bazil  :z16

 :z18

Jim

 




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