Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #15 on: 28/05/2009 at 13:13 »
Magnus,

With a WF 7 wt, busting a gut, the best I can do on a regular basis is 25 yards......how do they do it ?????

Nigel

Rob Brownfield

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #16 on: 28/05/2009 at 14:26 »
Magnus,

With a WF 7 wt, busting a gut, the best I can do on a regular basis is 25 yards......how do they do it ?????

Nigel

Thats ya problem...if you are "busting a gut" you are using too much power and not enough timing. I think it was on the Sexyloops site that the instructor keeps preaching to reduce the power...and then reduce even more.
Certainly Lefty Kreh, who is now in his 80's, can put out a full line and make it look soooo easy...and thats with just the top section. On your tube there is a chap doing it with no rod at all!  :shock :shock :shock

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #17 on: 28/05/2009 at 17:55 »
Hi Rob,

I hear what you are saying...I have tried timing / stance / more power / less power / aim high / aim low / wrist snaps / no wrist snaps / feeding the line after shooting through a'ring' made with my fingers - and guess what......25 yards and that's it !

Would love to see that video of a guy casting with no rod...do you have a url ?

Nigel

Rob Brownfield

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #18 on: 29/05/2009 at 08:10 »
I will have a look for it...but I cant get access at work ;)

I think he was scandinavian....if that helps your search..lol.

Have you thought of having a lesson? Even wee hints that Ben has given me when I have ben thrashing around with a demo rod has made a huge difference to my casting.

Magnus Angus

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #19 on: 29/05/2009 at 16:00 »
Hi Nigel

25yds is perfectly respectable.

I'd go along with Rob on the timing issue. Reducing the effort and thinking about the tip path can help. Try to make the tip go in as straight a line as possible. You can even get fancy and try to make that straight line as long as possible.

Casting doesn't need to be fast and furious, if you think about how a car accelerates - stamp on the pedal you accelerate to 60 - ease the pedal down and you still reach 60. A smoother longer stroke means more control and until you reach your limits means easier distance.

I'd strongly recommend learning to haul. If you already double haul then the thing to ask is, are hauling effectively. You should not run out of haul before the rod comes straight and the line overtakes the rod. Its extremely hard to see that in real time but is not uncommon. The way to get that going is to try and match the haul to the speed of the rod, nothing short and sharp, far better long and smooth.

Hauling well allows you to 'carry' or false-cast more line. To make a 75ft cast I'd be carrying around 40ft outside the rod tip when I make the delivery cast. When I'm reaching for distance I am carrying 75ft of line trying to shoot as far as possible. Some of the really hot guys can carry an incredible length of line - 90ft and more. That means they have a LONG stroke and their tracking is good enough.
The other way to go farther is simply accept not carrying a long line and use a shorter heavier head - shooting head or a heavier WF line. The easy way to try it is use a line one size heavier. Yes it will feel a little strange, no it will not damage your rod. Get a larger mass to the same speed and you have more momentum = more distance.

As Rob says getting a lesson from a decent instructor can be a shortcut to making dramatic improvements.

If you are inclined and want to try video analysis, film yourself casting a post it on Youtube or somewhere and link to here.



Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #20 on: 29/05/2009 at 16:10 »
Hi Rob,

I found the video of the lad casting without a rod - amazing !!!!!!

Yes, I will be getting some lessons when I get home this year - was out this morning, after the 'grass carp' (or scrub carp in this case) in an ambient temperature of 45 Deg C. (I almost couldn't touch my rod it was so hot !!!!!) anyway, a small improvement on the overhead distance cast - 2 or 3 feet, but progress.

Out of interest, I am sure that the people living on my compound think that I am shall we say, slightly eccentric !  The other day an english woman was watching me from the nearby open air swimming pool. After a while she said "There aren't any fish here you know!"  I replied that I knew that because I had already caught them all but that if she spotted any trout in the swimming pool she should let me know !

Nigel


Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #21 on: 29/05/2009 at 16:18 »
Hi Magnus,

Our posts crossed. Thank's for the offer regarding reviewing a video - I will try and get one done - problem is my wife is off tomorrow for a month to help look after our new grandson - so might be a while.

Regarding the 'carry' I was false casting and trying to carry more and more line but control became a bit difficult so I am now back to 10 yards of fly line outside the rod tip which feels more comfortable.

Nigel

Magnus Angus

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #22 on: 29/05/2009 at 16:35 »
Hi Nigel
Do you double haul? taking it back to the length you can control is good. The way forwards is to try and make tighter (narrower) loops - that's tighter not faster. Then work on faster and still tight. Then bring it all together. Do that and you'll find you can carry more line.

These help build good basics:
http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/billgammelsguide.shtml
http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/adjustmentsonthefly.shtml

An FFF instructor has tried recording the whole of his method of teaching a novice how to double haul. Its long but very interesting if you are into that and have the time and patience. Starts here - go to his pages for all the episodes.

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #23 on: 30/05/2009 at 08:54 »
Hi Magnus,

With any luck, a video of me casting is attached (!?)

Weapon was a Shakespear Expedition 9' 6/7 wt, 7 piece travel rod with a WF #7 floating line. Had 10 yards of flyline out of the tip.

http://s581.photobucket.com/albums/ss252/nigelpreece/?action=view&current=Overheadcasting30-5-09.flv

Would be interested to hear your comments.

Nigel

Magnus Angus

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #24 on: 30/05/2009 at 16:02 »
Hi Nigel

Good clip. Great a lefty so this will always look awkward to me  :z4

IMHO you have the basics, if you want to get more from it you need to work to tighten those. At the moment your stroke is big, long and strong for 30ft of line. Combined with a long strong haul the only thing(s) that says 30ft is you mentioned it and the tempo of your cast - the length of time you are waiting between strokes.

With 30ft of line there is no advantage to swaying the body as much as you do there. No need to change stance or to stop shifting your weight from one foot to the other - just not as much. When you cast a longer line that shift of weight will become more important.

It looks to me like your back cast is weaker than your forward cast. I'm guessing the loops are not narrow and the loop on your backcast is wider than the loop on your forward cast.

Looking at your hauls - you have a long haul going back and a short haul going forwards. My inclination would be to take you back to a simple stroke with that length of line, holding it trapped under the fingers of your rod hand. (ie NOT holding the line in your right hand.) You should be able to false cast that length of line with no problems. Go through the routine Bill describes here http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/adjustmentsonthefly.shtml
Start with a short line and consciously try to make your loops narrow, using as little force as possible - so the line just barely straightens. Then add power and keep the loop narrow. Then add a little line and do the same.

There are several ideas there. The casting stoke needs to change, to get bigger or smaller depending on both the length of line you are playing with and the force you are applying. With a fixed length of line the loops can be the same back and front. In calm conditions they should really be pretty symmetrical.

When that's in there, in your 'muscle memory', then adding the haul comes a lot easier. You should find you are using less rod if that makes sense. The haul makes things easier, tighter and faster - easier to get narrow loops.

If it's ok with you I'll invite a couple of other guys to comment?

Magnus


Mike Heritage

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #25 on: 30/05/2009 at 17:48 »
Hi Guys,

 Sorry, I got lost, my comp crashed a couple of weeks ago and I lost all my bookmarks etc, etc.

 Nigel, Magnus has asked for comments so here goes, I have not read Magnus's advice to you (yet)

 First off I am surprised you only have 30' or so out of the rod, from your cadence and timing I would have assumed maybe twice that, so, for 30' you are putting in far too much effort. If you had been casting 60' I would be saying nice casting btw. It's almost a shame your double haul is so nice 'cos I'm going to tell you to stop using it :shock. Go back a bit and just false cast (without hauling), just concentrate on popping nice loops with minimum effort, start at 30' then 35' then 40' etc, every time you increase the distance make sure you are casting nice loops consistantly. At somewhere around fifty feet you may start to struggle to keep nice loops, this is the time to add the DH, but only a little one, just enough to get nice loops again. I am tempted to say 'let the rod do the work' but Magnus will only try and convince you the rod doesn't do any anyway, so I won't. I like your rod  hand, you don't use too much wrist, and you actually have a nice stroke, just too much of it for the amount of line you are casting. Back off the power and become one with your rod, don't try and dominate it, work with it. Relax your arm and grip so that you start to feel the cast. I know it sounds a bit Zen, but it works, if you let it.

 Put another clip up in a few weeks so we can see how you are getting on.

 Right, lets see what Magnus has to say :z6

Mike Heritage

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #26 on: 30/05/2009 at 18:03 »
Hey, not bad, we agree on most things :z4.

 I should have mentioned casting arc, thats this bit \/. Remember it's not fixed, it has to vary, thats to say the more line you are casting the wider the casting arc has to be, if you cast tailing loops your casting arc is too narrow for the amount of line being cast, if your loops are too wide then you need to narrow the casting arc a bit.

  Mike

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #27 on: 30/05/2009 at 19:01 »
Hi Guys,

My sincere thanks for your highly constructive criticism - it is appreciated. Critiques and advice at a range of 3,000 miles must be a first !!!! (LOL)

Back to the practice field, as you have both suggested and I will try for another video in about 3 weeks when the wife gets back from Qatar.

Thanks again, highly appreciated.

Nigel

p.s. If you think Scots trees are good at catching flies - you should see what date palms can do !!!!!!!!!!

Mike Barrio

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #28 on: 31/05/2009 at 01:01 »
Hi Mike :z16

Earlier in the thread, Magnus asked : "ok how do I link one of Mike's clips. I want to get the side view of Paul and the clip of Stephan up."

I wasn't sure about putting your videos on here without asking .......... Is it OK with you? I was confident you'd be happy with Hamish's one though :wink

Cheers
Mike

Mike Heritage

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #29 on: 31/05/2009 at 12:23 »
Mike, everything I put up is there to be shared, so help yourself  :z16

  Mike

 




Barrio Fly Lines - designed in Scotland - Cast with confidence all over the world

Barrio Fly Lines

Designed in Scotland

Manufactured in the UK

Cast with confidence all over the world

www.flylineshop.com