Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Mike Barrio

Hamish hits one!
« on: 15/05/2009 at 21:32 »
A cracking piece of "slow Mo" taken by Mike H :z16


Hamish Young

Re: Hamish hits one! .....(take2)
« Reply #1 on: 16/05/2009 at 09:29 »
Cool  :cool:
I can now see what it is that I've been doing all these years, 'tis a wee bit odd right enough...... but it works  :wink
Work to be done on timing, the haul and tracking methinks - it's all good  :z16
Roll on 'loops Scotland next year and the next outcasts gathering  :z18

Hamish  :z3

Sandy Nelson

Re: Hamish hits one! .....(take2)
« Reply #2 on: 16/05/2009 at 16:59 »
I like this slow mo camera thing, fascinating to watch what the line is doing in the rings.
As well as watching the body movements, that may cost you something in efficiency.
I think we should all be given this treatment, i'd love to see what i'm doing in this way too :z16

They were rather nice results too, Mr Y  :wink

Nice one, especially beating our flexible friend  :z4 :z4 (no pun there honest :z7)

Cool :z12

Sandy

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #3 on: 25/05/2009 at 18:47 »
Hi,

Love the slowmotion video - could do with one to check out my rubbish casting ! 

Watching the video started me thinking about stances for fly fishing...standing right foot forward, casting righthanded and looking over one's shoulder at the backcast looks extremely awkward to do and really quite uncomfortable.

The closed stance seems to be traditional and many use the open stance but I really can't think of any other 'throwing or striking' sport in which the leg on the throwing arm side is extended forward - it is usually the other way around with the leg - opposite the 'throwing or striking hand' extended forward: throwing a cricket ball, playing a stroke in tennis; badminton etc,etc.

Anyone got any thoughts on this ?

Nigel

Hamish Young

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #4 on: 26/05/2009 at 07:41 »
There's certainly a case for changing stance, it has been suggested to me as it should help lengthening my overall 'stroke'.
However, it's very hard trying to change these things around after some 25 years with a fly rod in my hand :oops

A fair point though, it would make sense to have the left foot forward (in my case) and going from there  :z16

Hamish  :z3

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #5 on: 26/05/2009 at 09:24 »
Hi Hamish,

I'm not saying you should change your stance or that it is wrong (who am I to give advice !!!!) .....just wondering if anyone knows what the rationale is for casting hand foot forward (if you know what I mean !) There must be one.

In much of the flycasting literature I have read there is lots of stuff about the various phases of the various casts etc but relatively little discussion on stances.

If you do decide to try another stance, would be interested to know how you get on.

Take care,

Nigel

Rob Brownfield

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #6 on: 26/05/2009 at 09:54 »
I cast right handed with my left foot forward..because it is comfortable. It allows a very long stroke which I find I ned with the 9 and 10 weights and allows easy shooting of the line on the back cast to minimise false casts.

With lighter outfits such as the 3 weight I seem to naturally face the water more. Probably because I dont need to shoot line on the back cast or apply as much stroke to get the line moving.

I have regularly tried the "hamish" stance..so to speak, but I find it difficult...

Magnus Angus

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #7 on: 26/05/2009 at 16:24 »
ok how do I link one of Mike's clips. I want to get the side view of Paul and the clip of Stephan up.

The rationale for casting right foot forward - and its still being debated - is that it makes for better tracking and a longer cleaner haul. Some top class casters find those are enough to add quite a few feet to their distances. That's not to say they can't or don't switch but there's a good little list of guys who cast enviably well who use a version of the closed stance. They're getting a far longer stroke than I can with an open stance.

Rob is right that there are a lot of throwing events where the thrower plants the foot under their non-throwing side, however, they almost all follow with a transfer of weight so they end up on the foot under their casting arm - think of Javelin throwers dancing around after their throw. If you look at baseball the pitcher takes a stride and rotates into the throw - they don't have yards of line behind their hand - we do. If the rod curves through as it passes the body we don't get an accurate cast but it can also mean we're not directing as much force as possible in one direction and more to the point getting the line to go in one direction.

Same goes with casting sidearm - there can be some very good reasons for choosing that style (less stressful on ageing joints) but it'll tend to curve the stroke so the directed speed (momentum) of the line isn't always as focussed so it can inhibit max distances and it's less accurate.

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #8 on: 26/05/2009 at 18:02 »
Magnus,

Playing the devil's advocate ('cos this is interesting )  Maybe there is a case for making the cast with the non casting side foot forward and then transferring the weight to end up with the casting side - foot forward ! (would scare the living daylights out of spectators etc and not really a goer when wading...but......)

Don't really get your point about javelin throwers / baseball pitchers not having yards of line behind them ?  If the line is straight at the end of the backcast then the line behind the caster simply becomes effectively a long javelin ?

Nigel

Rob Brownfield

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #9 on: 26/05/2009 at 23:12 »

Playing the devil's advocate ('cos this is interesting )  Maybe there is a case for making the cast with the non casting side foot forward and then transferring the weight to end up with the casting side - foot forward ! (would scare the living daylights out of spectators etc and not really a goer when wading...but......)

Watch Ben cast..he does a nice wee dance as described by yourself :) Infact, I have seen him add an extra 10 yards on a cast...by shuffling forwards 10 yards ;)

By theory..and it is only theory, as the back cast straightens, you could take several running steps forward, like a javelin thrower, and launch your arm forward, thus increasing line speed...but I bet you would lose all the advantage by losing your tracking and stop.

Peter McCallum

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #10 on: 27/05/2009 at 00:12 »
If the line is straight at the end of the backcast then the line behind the caster simply becomes effectively a long javelin ?


unfortunately a long, thin, flexible, Javelin that will flex and sag if the backcast is not perfect or the caster makes any sort of rotation/jerk on the forward cast

Magnus Angus

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #11 on: 27/05/2009 at 04:40 »
Hi Nigel

Peter nails the reasons for that comparison. A pitcher or javelin thrower can curve the path of their hand up to release and so long at the thing is going in the right direction there isn't a problem. If we're false casting 30ft or more of line (sometimes far more) using a rod 9ft long to magnify the movements of our hands we have a problem if the path of the rod tip curves too much.

On the stepping thing. I know several guys who do something just like that.


Magnus Angus

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #12 on: 27/05/2009 at 04:50 »
This is one version of the other side of the coin. Rajeff casting for distance. Open stance but his stroke is shorter than Rick Hartman's in the previous clip.


Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #13 on: 27/05/2009 at 09:24 »
Hi Magnus,

Thanks for those video clips. Very interesting !

I think if I tried the Rick Hartman stance I would end up looking like a pretzel (LOL)

In the examples above, the difference is 'chalk and cheese" yet, they both work.

I suppose that is what makes fly fishing so fascinating - there really is no "answer" just a fresh set of questions !

Nigel

Magnus Angus

Re: Hamish hits one!
« Reply #14 on: 28/05/2009 at 02:29 »
Hi Nigel

On another site I'm involved in a discussion about casting style, more exactly about a distinction between style and substance of casting. Roughly, the idea is that underpinning all practical functional casting we all need to do the same and the physics and fundamental mechanics are the same. Among casting teachers there is also a debate about teaching a 'style' of casting. Most casting instructors try not to impose a style, their style, on their clients. (The idea is tall thin instructor Jim teaching short fat Bob - Jim's casting is about long flowing movement - Bob has shorter arms, shorter levers. What's makes the best of Jim's physique may not be ideal for Bob.)

The guys in those clips are among the very best light line distance casters. Rajeff is a champion tournament caster, with heavy single handed rods. Hartman really opened the eyes of some top class casters, his style has been very influential over the past few years. In a sense they represent the extremes they way they cast. Both are throwing #5 lines in those clips but the way they do it is very different if you look at the details - lots to be tried out.

 




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