Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Mike Barrio

Lake of Menteith
« on: 28/04/2009 at 01:31 »
Hi folks :cool:

My thoughts are with Quint and the team at the Lake of Menteith, I am sure that they are doing their very best to find out what has happened and they deserve the full support of the UK angling community.

I'm following Quint's posts on the Menteith forum at http://www.bagpipes-scotland.co.uk/lom/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=362 for any updates and I hope they can get to the bottom of the problem soon, the whole thing must be heart breaking!

Best wishes
Mike

Paul Rankine

Re: Lake of Menteith
« Reply #1 on: 05/05/2009 at 17:46 »
Hi all,
           Latest news seems to indicate the cause of the fish deaths may be due to high iron concentrations affecting gill function.

 Where would the iron have come from (if it is that) .  :?

 Paul.

Jim Eddie

Re: Lake of Menteith
« Reply #2 on: 05/05/2009 at 18:03 »
Paul

Looking at the link brown algae have a high iron content ? not really sure though.

http://www.lenntech.com/elements-and-water/iron-and-water.htm

 :z18

Jim

Paul Rankine

Re: Lake of Menteith
« Reply #3 on: 05/05/2009 at 20:03 »
Hi Jim,
         Yep. Some bacteria can concentrate certain compounds and algal/bacterial biochemical interactions are not generally well understood .

But where did the Iron come from originally , at the levels that would affect a large number of fish ?

Iron is naturally present at normally very low concentrations in soil ,(not enough to affect fish).

 Has it been concentrated in the lake sediments by algal/ bacterial interactions ?

 A small algal bloom was reported before the fish kill ,(prompting initial thoughts of algal toxins or O2 depletion ) could this bloom have been the transport vector ?

Very interested in the outcome of this as we could be dealing with something here of much more general application unfortunately .

Let's hope not.

PS: High or very high iron concentrations are not thought to be a health threat to "normal functioning adults" as excess iron is normally excreted, unlike heavy metals , like lead , cadmium etc.


Rob Brownfield

Re: Lake of Menteith
« Reply #4 on: 06/05/2009 at 02:32 »
Next Monday and Tuesday I am meant to be on a scientific fish-in (recording, tagging and monitoring the Pike stock) with the PFFA at Menteith but needless to say it has been cancelled.  :cry

The club has been in close contact with the labs at Torry and Stirling Uni who are carrying out the tests on behalf of SEPA and all indications point to naturally occuring toxins caused by a sudden explosion of bacteria feeding on dead and decaying algae (thats the yellow/brown water Quint reported).

The Iron issue is probably incorrect as it would have affected all fish in the loch yet no coarse fish have been found dead....so far..

I wish the water a speedy recovery and hope it can get back on form for Junes World Championships!!!

Paul Rankine

Re: Lake of Menteith
« Reply #5 on: 06/05/2009 at 12:39 »
Rob,
       here's the link from the Fishery itself.
http://www.menteith-fisheries.co.uk/menteith-fisheries.co.uk/weeklyreports/weeklyreports2009/pressrelease010509.html

As far as I am aware the toxins come from the dead algal cells not the bacteria. Fish kills from microcystins are not an unknown occurrence , even in this country , of course.

Paul.

Rob Brownfield

Re: Lake of Menteith
« Reply #6 on: 10/05/2009 at 01:16 »
This is the latest information from the PFFA. The association was originally informed that no coarse fish had been affected. This has now been amended and Pike, Perch and Roach are now said to have been affected.

Anyway..the preass release below....

"PRESS RELEASE IN RELATION TO THE RECENT FISH LOSSES AT MENTEITH AND ITS REOPENING ON SATURDAY 9TH MAY

We have consulted with all the relevant statutary organisations, ie SEPA, FRS and the Department of Health, and many many other organisations and individuals before taking the decision to open the Lake for angling and fish consumption. The Department of Public Health have been given full details of the fish loss event, and have indicated that on this basis anglers may resume angling and eating their catch.
I include the press release statement below which should answer many of the questions you may have.

Press Release.

Lake of Menteith Fishery Calls in Top Fish Veterinarian.


Lake of Menteith Fishery, which suffered a major unaccountable mortality to its fishery stocks has called in one of the world’s most distinguished Veterinarians to review the situation.


Professor Ronald J Roberts FRCVS, FRCPath, FRSE. is President of the World Aquatic Veterinary Medicine Association and also the chairman of fish health and welfare at the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA), the EU’s Food Safety Risk Assessment organisation, based in Parma, Italy. Professor Roberts, is an Emeritus Professor of the University of Stirling and is Hagerman Distinguished Professor at the University of Idaho, USA. In the 1980’s Professor Roberts led a four year UN Mission investigating fish kills across South East Asia, and also has extensive experience in investigating similar problems in Canada, Indonesia, Sweden and South America.


Professor Roberts visited the Lake of Menteith Fishery today, (Thursday 7th May). He reviewed all of the reports and results from the various agencies which have been involved in the problem and also collected material from fish for his own tests, (which including cooking and eating a sample of fish from the affected area).

In his report Professor Roberts stated. ………………………….
“……….It is clear from my review of all of the data, that there has been a serious “fish kill” event at the Lake of Menteith leading to a high mortality level among both trout and coarse fish of the loch, which I would place at Grade 3 on a five point scale.


The meteorological history of the previous few weeks coupled with the nature of the Lake, which is somewhat eutrophic compared to traditional Scottish lochs and is generally shallow but with one particularly deep area, suggests that there has been a significant toxic event related to water quality. There is no evidence from the pathology of the fishes that there has been any infection. The fish were, overall, in excellent condition.


In my experience such events may be of completely natural origin, occurring very irregularly and with long periods of time between them. From the nature of the lesions in the gills of the fish, the observations of Mr Glen and his colleagues, who have very detailed information on the sequence of events, and from the water quality and other data provided by SEPA and the results of Professor Geoff Codd of Dundee University, who has an international reputation in the field of toxic algae, I believe that it is probable that toxic algae played little if any role in the event, and the most likely cause would be an upwelling of toxic anaerobic organic matter, gases and associated bacterial toxins from the very cold benthic areas of the deepest part of the lake, which is adjacent to where the first and most serious mortalities occurred. Given Mr Glen’s recognition of the presence of necrotic odours around the area at the time of the loss, and his observations on the various water quality parameters, as well as the nature of the gill and liver lesions, it seems most likely that hydrogen sulphide, which is known to cause similar pathologies, was a significant factor. It is unlikely however to be the only factor as anerobic breakdown of organic matter releases a range of similar products. This will of course have been a very temporary situation and there is now no evidence of any such contaminants remaining. Such events are rare and I have not personally experienced them to recur.


In my experience, where such fish kills are not caused by infectious agents nor primarily associated with toxic blue-green algae, the effect is short lived and surviving fish recover well over three or four days, provided they are not stressed or challenged in relation to oxygen availability. Since fish have been taken from clean waters and placed in cages in the lake around where the losses took place and are surviving, behaving naturally and feeding well, and there has been a significant period of heavy rain and high wind in the area now for the last ten days, I am confident that all of the factors leading to the unfortunate event will now be dissipated.


In making such predictions I have always believed that one has to have the courage of ones convictions and so have today, 15 days after the start of the fish kill, collected live fish from the main affected area of the Lake of Menteith, cooked them and eaten them. There was no muddy taste or algal taint, and the fish has caused me no negative effect. I am therefore happy to recommend that the fishery is now likely to be safe to open and that there should be no problem with successful anglers consuming their catch.



Professor Ronald J Roberts Ph D, FRCVS, FRCPath, FIBiol, FRSE. Emeritus Professor, University of Stirling, Hagerman Distinguished Professor, University of Idaho.”

End of Report"

 




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