Fishing The Fly Forum, based in Aberdeenshire,  Scotland

Rob Brownfield

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 00:16:57 AM »

I never have a problem with tag ends of gold, because i hate tipping the whippings,

But sometimes the customer wants.....  :z6

Rods for myself....plain as plain can be...totally understated!!!!  :grin :grin just very high quality fittings...all be it plain :)
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

bigtroot

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2009, 22:42:16 PM »
From start to finish if you had all the kit , how long does it take to make a good job of a rod?

Rob Brownfield

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2009, 09:02:57 AM »
From start to finish if you had all the kit , how long does it take to make a good job of a rod?

Thats a hard question to answer as there are so many variables...but..I will try...

If I get a clear run at things, it takes me around an hour to build the Handle up from an already turned handle...so thats fitting the reel seat, then the handle. Normally there is some boring out to do, taping of the blank to build it up to accept the reel seat etc.

I leave this to dry over night (I use normal araldite, not rapid)

Next day I would do the rings. If you are not bothering with tippings or fancy stuff it takes a couple of hours to whip everything, a bit more if using snakes. If using a light thread I would then give them 3 coats of colour preserver and leave 24 hours to dry.

I use the Sage/Loomis style of building which is to align the blank for straightness rather than along the spine. There is a lot of debate regarding this but on the blanks i build on the spine is not noticable except in the very tip section (4 piece) and there appears to be no detrimental affects to the rod.

The next day I do the epoxy. This takes about 2 hours for me to do a 9 footer.

I then leave this turning overnight and the next morning its ready.

However, I then leave a further 2 days in a warm room to properly cure before using.

Sooooo, start on the Monday, you have a rod for the weekend :)

However, if its your first build, you may take longer with the whipping, especially if you want to add tippings or spirals etc. It actually takes me about 2 hours to get the writing correct on the blank!!..Very fussy!!..lol

Hope that helps a little..
Rob
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Sandy Nelson

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2009, 16:22:52 PM »
From start to finish if you had all the kit , how long does it take to make a good job of a rod?

The same length of time it takes to make a bad one :z4

Seriously though

This is where different people have different techniques.If you have a Kit with all the correct componants to start with.

I would say it will take 1/2 hour to prepare the blank properly, another 1/2 hour to grind the feet on the rings. It will take about 1/2 hour to bore the cork grip and prep it to take the reel seat.
1/2 hour to spine the blank and mark off all the points where the rings are to go.
I would say about 1/2 hour to get the wooden insert to the right diameter, so it is a snug fit, or if you are using a larger diameter reel seat then i would sleeve the butt where the reel seat will go with carbon to take up the gap, this takes longer but is well worth it :z16
To Assemble the cork and reel seat allow 1/2 hour to get it all aligned properly and leave to dry. I use Araldite rapid for seats only, if its good enough for rotor blades its good enough for me :z16 I use an expanding epoxy for the cork, which fills in any gaps as it cures and gives a great cushioned grip which is very strong.
Whipping the rings will probably take about an hour or 2 depending on how good you are at whipping :z8.
Once the rod is complete and ready to epoxy, de-fuzz all the whippings, another 1/2 hour.
Apply the first thin coat of epoxy and turn whilst drying, the application takes about 1/2 hour and 8hrs min to cure at room temp. I leave it for 24hrs from the first coat, and then apply a second thin coat, this one i leave for 48 hrs before handling the rod.
Then i wipe it down with a baby wipe and give it a polish with a dry clean cloth. About 1/2 hour

So i suppose you are going to spend at least 6 hours making it, probably 8 and then three days before its usable once you have started the Epoxy. As Rob says, start on Monday and have the rod ready for Saturday :z16 This is assuming you have rod turners available, otherwise you have to do the epoxy during the day and then turn by hand every 15-20mins for the first few hours. Ok if you are not going anywhere else:roll

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

bigtroot

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2009, 16:27:10 PM »
All sounds good  :z4
Do you buy your rod turners or just make some buckshee contraption  :z17

Sandy Nelson

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2009, 16:29:51 PM »
All sounds good  :z4
Do you buy your rod turners or just make some buckshee contraption  :z17

I used the stonefly ones for years, very good :z16 But I have a proper quad dryer running off mains these days, It was costing me a fortune in batteries :shock
However they are ideal for someone doing one or two rods :z16

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

bigtroot

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2009, 16:40:29 PM »
Think this could be a project for me next winter :wink. I have so much to get already this year and iam sure you all now how hard it is to hide all the new toys from the other half :z4!. A float tube is not the easiest thing to hide in a cupboard  :z6

Sandy Nelson

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2009, 17:16:19 PM »
I can lend you some turners if you need, when the need arises :z16
I have 3 spares, which i keep as back-ups.

Alex has them at the moment, thinking of which, hows the rod coming on Catman :z8

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

bigtroot

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2009, 17:34:50 PM »
Alex is off to Stavanger for a jolly i believe  :wink  :z18 :z18 :z18 :z18 :z18 :z18 :z18 :z18 :z18

Catman

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2009, 22:29:03 PM »
I can lend you some turners if you need, when the need arises :z16
I have 3 spares, which i keep as back-ups.

Alex has them at the moment, thinking of which, hows the rod coming on Catman :z8

Sandy

Hi Sandy

Baz is right I am in Stavanger for a couple of days (High Level Risk Assessment meeting for an up coming Rig Shipyard).
Rod wise so far have got the Handle & Reel seat all set up & ready to fit & have fitted the Tip Ring & whipped the other Rings onto the top section. Unfortunately I do not work & the same production level as Rob so it will be a few weeks yet before it is finished, problem is early mornings into work & late nights home through the week.

Alex
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 22:49:16 PM by Catman »

Rob Brownfield

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2009, 08:46:16 AM »
Think this could be a project for me next winter :wink.

One VERY important thing to remember...temperature plays a very important part in the quality of the epoxy finish.

This is why I have not been able to finish any rods recently, I just cannot get my spare room warm enough (+20 degrees) for the epoxy to flow nicely. Basically, if the temp is too low you can get "fogging" in the epoxy which is water condensation or the epoxy does not flow and level because it becomes thicker at lower temps.

One trick is to microwave the epoxy before mixing, then keep it on a radiator or similar when applying, this gives a really runny consistancy, and if you ahve a rod turner, it levels beautifully...but..if the air is cold it will sonn start to thicken and if you need to go back and touch up what your have done, it can leave bumps.

Just a thought :)
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Catman

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2009, 21:16:10 PM »
One VERY important thing to remember...temperature plays a very important part in the quality of the epoxy finish.

This is why I have not been able to finish any rods recently, I just cannot get my spare room warm enough (+20 degrees) for the epoxy to flow nicely. Basically, if the temp is too low you can get "fogging" in the epoxy which is water condensation or the epoxy does not flow and level because it becomes thicker at lower temps.

One trick is to microwave the epoxy before mixing, then keep it on a radiator or similar when applying, this gives a really runny consistancy, and if you ahve a rod turner, it levels beautifully...but..if the air is cold it will sonn start to thicken and if you need to go back and touch up what your have done, it can leave bumps.

Just a thought :)

Hi Rob

Thanks for that, my plan is to try to get all the rings whipped on ready for epoxy then do 2 lots of 3 sections which will take me a bit of time yet.

Alex
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 21:42:43 PM by Mike Barrio »

Sandy Nelson

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2009, 22:04:12 PM »
"fogging" in the epoxy which is water condensation


Do you reckon this comes off the blank or from the wraps?

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

Rob Brownfield

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2009, 08:47:40 AM »
I was talking to Cass who is a chemist working with polymers etc so I asked her....since I had heard differing comments on the rod building forums.

Her take on it is that cold air can be damp and as the epoxy "reacts" and starts to go off it draws in moisture from the atmosphere. This ties in with a post on a US forum where a chap in Florida had always epoxied his rods in his air conditioned garage (about 20 degrees) but decided to get a quicker cure time by openning the garage door to let the heat in. Every wrap went misty. Of course, the warm air in Florida has a high humidity.

A warm room in a house should be relativly damp free.

Whats your opinion on the issue?
Ok, I admit it, I quite like this salmon fishing lark....

Sandy Nelson

Re: FIRST TIME ROD BUILD PROJECT
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2009, 09:06:02 AM »
This is where it gets interesting.

Only time i've had problems with misting was a few years ago when i built a couple of rods, and epoxied them in the attic.
I had taken the rods from the relatively warm room in the house where i had wrapped them into the cooler attic.
I attributed the misting to the fact that on the temperature change from room to room the blank had been subject to condensation.
Although it was not apparent, i had figured that the wraps had actually remained slightly affected when the epoxy had been applied, hence the misting.
I stripped the rods and re-did them in the room afterwards :z6 Bloody pain.
A bigger problem for me was always micro bubbles :mad For me this is caused by cooler temps where the epoxy is slightly thicker not allowing the bubbles to get to the surface to pop in time to let the epoxy self level. Since moving to the new house and now having a proper room in the house to build in (lucky me :z12) it became less of a problem as the temperature is much more easily maintained. However i noticed a MASSIVE improvement using the quad rod turner, i'm attributing this to the fact that it turns very slowly so giving the bubbles much more chance to pop. I'm extremely happy with the finish i'm getting now.

Incidentally in my experience Heating the epoxy will reduce the pot-life substantially , it will make it slightly less viscous for a short time, but will reduce your time for completing the job. Too much of a compromise for me.

As i say, the biggest improvement i have seen was by slowing the turning speed   :z16 and for that i need a longer potlife :z8 swings and roundabouts i suppose :z18

Sandy
John Geirach 1999 "Millions of trout have died of old age before i could catch them and there's not a damn thing i can do about that"

 




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