[Rob Brownfield]

The video Mike posted inspired me to look on youtube for a few more casting vids..and a few interesting things came out of my search...and these are just observations..so dont shout at me...

Scandinavian casters are extremely technical and seem far more advanced than UK casters.

UK anglers only want distance and double hauls.

American casters sound impressive until you realise they are talking 40 feet not meters 

Japanese casters seem to love traditional spey casting.

Australian casters dont cast, they get the line out there somehow.

There are several different schools of thought on what makes a good cast...for example, at 83 years of age, Lefty Kreh can double haul a full 40 yards with what looks like the minimum of effort, even doing it with just the tip of the rod, yet Paul Arden says Lefty has no idea how to cast and is doing it all wrong!

Joan Wulff seems to be able to create the most amazing loops yet something does not look right with her casts.

Steve Radjeff..well..he is different again..and "totally awesome" if we where to use a saying from across the pond.

What hope do mear mortals have if the experts all do it different?

Have to say...I think I cast along the Lefty Kreh princible as you just cannot use your wrist and "clockface" method with 10 weights...well..I can't...Hamish might be able too though

[Sandy Nelson]

Rob

Now the whole world has been sorted, And agreed Steve Rajeff is a machine

Have a look at

Jason Borger and Stefan Siikavaara for some very pretty casting (just a couple whom do the technical thing at another level)

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

Both Guideline and Loop have some pretty impressive casters working for them who work on the techniques rather than the distance.....as can be seen on Youtube.

And both companies produce some of the best "fishing rods" out there.

A connection perhaps? 

[Mike Barrio]

And you've learnt all that just by watching a few videos Rob!    

I'm not "shouting at you" ....... but somebody should

Mike

[Rob Brownfield]

No Mike,
by having spent the last couple of years looking for the ultimate Pike rod so have been doing lots of casting and fishing with various rods on various lochs at various Pike fly events up and down the country. With that also came a few casts with various trout rods...

..and by listening to what folk such as Sandy, Hamish, yourself, Magnus etc have to say about the rods on this site and various others ...sooooooo......


.....thuuuuuuurp! 

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Rob

To the best of my knowledge, I don't think I have met the casters from Guideline and Loop, or had the pleasure of sharing a casting session with them ........ so I'm afraid I'm not in a position to comment on whether or not they work on distance. ( but in my very humble opinion, any caster that reaches that sort of level would almost certainly be working on all aspects of their casting skills )

You can't honestly write sweeping statements like "Americans casters this", "UK anglers that", "Scandinavian casters such & such" etc ........... without expecting us (your mates) to have a bit of a laugh when we read it

Best wishes
Mike
 

[Hamish Young]

Interesting topic - and observations there Rob 

I firmly believe that there are no right and wrongs if it works for you.... if you reach a level you're happy with then fair play. That's reflected to an extent in the different styles we all have although we all generally accept/understand that there are core principals that make a significant difference to how we could cast

'Joe Average' can chuck out a line and is happy with what he does. He fishes a lot and doesn't want to improve because he's happy. Why should he He's not alone. But the desire to improve is often stimulated by frustration...... which leads you to:

........ the enthusiast (or is that nerd.... ) now I'm happy to be one of them

I learnt the hard way this year that I had reached the limits of what I could do with a single handed rod my way and accepted that to improve - particularly with distance - then the way I cast needs to change, and that takes time and a lot of 'unlearning' bad habits.

I'm not at all sure that there's really all that much of a difference between the nations in terms of technique. Sure, there are differences stimulated by local conditions and equipment etc etc But I've seen video of Left Kreh casting and I've seen Paul Arden (and other exceeding fine casters) all doing there thing in the flesh. The common ground

Technique over effort 

So I don't subscribe to the postulation that the experts do it all differently - sure, there are differences in style but the core techniques are very similar if not identical in most ways. To this humble observer, anyway 

Are there casting rights and wrongs You bet your ass there are  As one larger than life American I met this might have said faced with this question at the Sexyloops bash Mike, Sandy and I attended earlier this year.

We'll find some of them and get rid of most of them (I hope) via the "outcasts" - it promises to be an interesting time 

Hamish 

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Hamish

"I firmly believe that there are no right and wrongs if it works for you" ....... I'm with you 100%. We all have our own casting styles, I guess partly because we are built differently. Watching and sharing what each of us do best, can only be a good thing and will hopefully help us to improve our own technique.

Best wishes
Mike

[Rob Brownfield]

Mike,
I wrote "these are just observations" and bolded the observations bit to show it was a bit of fun.  

Of course a caster that has amazing technique will more than likely be able to cast the socks of us mortals....what i was trying to get at is that whenever these companies post videos on there sites or youtube, its the techniques that are shown off....not the distance..as the yanks and brits do. I think it would be a foolish person that thinks a caster of such caliber could not and would not be capable of big distances.

So all in all, I was trying to spark some debate about the differnt aspects of casting from around the world.

I should have added.."And czechs cant cast more than 10 feet"  

Hamish,
I agree with you regarding rights and wrongs, and core principles...many based on pure physics that cannot be changed no matter what we do. However, i do feel that different nations do things differently. The Scandinavians are into there Skaggit/underhand casts whilst the Brits are only just learning this style, while the Yanks have only really just taken onboard the Spey cast.

On the trout casting side of things I guess i am tainted by the casts I see by Joe Average here in the UK and then watch "experts" on various DVDs who are at the top of there game and therefore "showing off" there casting and thus showing the viewer the more interesting casts that you dont see every day.

Unfortuantly I doubt I will be going to any of the "Outcast" meets.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Rob

Re: "Unfortuantly I doubt I will be going to any of the "Outcast" meets" ...... That's a pity, as I think your expertise in casting large flies would have been very interesting to see and learn

Cheers
Mike

[Rob Brownfield]

Hi Rob

Re: "Unfortuantly I doubt I will be going to any of the "Outcast" meets" ...... That's a pity, as I think your expertise in casting large flies would have been very interesting to see and learn

Cheers
Mike

Ahem...I doubt it!!.."expertise" and "interesting"....

[Ben Dixon]

In terms of casting a fly to a fish, there are a few elements that will make the cast either work, or fail or do something mediocre in between.  
Think about what we are trying to achieve when waving a rod about, we are trying to bend the rod by accelerating it against the mass of the flyline, the bent rod has a stored potential energy which is then transferred to the line when rod straightens.  For a "good" cast the line should be under tension all the way through the cast and power must be applied smoothly at the right time, the rod must be stopped in the direction the caster wishes the line to travel and the stop should be crisp to ensure a good transfer of energy to the line.  The more the rod is forced to bend, the longer the stroke (movement of the rod tip between the stops) needs to be and the faster the rod can be rotated prior to the stop, the greater the line speed will be.

There are some seriously good distance casters in Scandinavia Rob and you should see Paul Arden throw presentation casts he does a shitload more than just distance    The clips of the single handed speys look cool but those particular casts are not things Id use to fish with, certainly not with 3 flies but they make use of the basic principles, when the flyline anchors on the water and the D loop is formed, provided it is formed correctly the cast will go out the same no matter how many times it flies around your head pre anchor.  Not really used underhand techniques until recently, I preferred full spey lines but in recent weeks have been more or less converted to shooting heads, particularly for sinkers, Ill bring a Skagit line along on Sunday if I make it up to Haddo.

Cheers

Ben

[Alex Burnett]

I'm with Hamish.... "I firmly believe that there are no right and wrongs if it works for you.... if you reach a level you're happy with then fair play".

It's quite simple for me, if I wave my rod about & my fly hits the water & a fish grabs it.... I've done it right  , if however I wave my rod about & my fly ends up round my head or my boat partner ...I've got it wrong.  ???

A lot of national differences refered to earlier are dictated by their natural circumstance, if you spend your life fishing 12ft wide streams in Tasmania who really cares if you can cast 40 yards. 

Alex

[Mike Barrio]

Ahem...I doubt it!!.."expertise" and "interesting"....

  Take it easy Rob, I'm being genuine here

You have spoken about your fly rod design quite a bit lately ( for obvious reasons I know how much work goes in to a design project ) and I am very interested in seeing the rod and how your design works

The "Outcasts" is not about trout casting, it is about having fun ..... sharing, learning and improving all things fly casting. I will be very disappointed if we don't see folk coming along to future meets with a 15 foot salmon rod to try out, or whatever they fancy. Ask Sandy/Hamish/Ben what I made of an american saltwater rod that Rich brought to Dunkeld ....... not only could I not cast it as well as everybody else ....... I simply couldn't cast it at all

So please come along and join in the fun
Best wishes
Mike

[Peter McCallum]

Ask Sandy/Hamish/Ben what I made of an american saltwater rod that Rich brought to Dunkeld ....... not only could I not cast it as well as everybody else ....... I simply couldn't cast it at all

So please come along and join in the fun
Best wishes
Mike

Personally I thought Rich's rod was an amazing casting tool - thankfully you wouldn't need to cast it all day!! I also thought the obstacle course was a really useful setup since it's more akin to a fishing situation than the pure distance situation. But I'd second Mikes invite to come along & have some fun. I'm sure we'll all learn from it - even the best of us.

Peter