[Magnus Angus]

Rob

An American site with input from UK anglers. In a thread about GAC's shortcomings and guys mentioning Demon breakages. Hmm!
Ok Rob - which US site? It's a slow night in Banff 
I'd be curious to find out about Demon breakages - I'm reviewing a couple at the moment.

You sure that wasn't this thread http://www.flyforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21704
Where poor customer service and customers sending rods back is mentioned - nothing about Demon rods though.

Incidentally the Demon is so new I can find nothing about persistent breakages.

Yes Rob I've seen the Demon test - any idea if other rods are tested as thoroughly as that?

[Rob Brownfield]

Magnus,
there are lots of yank sites out there..with lots of british anglers logging on!! Same as Mikes site gets Americans and Dutch looging on..hence the "world" wide web

I had done a search on "Pike Fly Fishing" and the site came from that..thats all I remember..sorry I saw about 50 sites that day.

As for the test rig, means nothing to me I am affraid. I don't think it shows the strength of the rod, only that it bends a long way. I know that you know that there is a lot more to the strength of a rod than just a bend. What they do on the test rig is something you would never ever subject a rod too so its not really relevant..but its jolly good PR for a company that has had numbers of there flag ship rod (Angel) returned with breakages. 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqWeyHfs0jk&feature=related

I will read your reviews with interest though as I have always valued your writing...have you ever done a long term test on rods? That would be very useful for potential buyers..

[Magnus Angus]

Yep there are a lot of sites out there - though not many US sites with discussion about GAC and Demon rods.

If the Hardy Greys test rig means nothing to you, how can you say "Something not quiet right when you see it bending...it starts of with a nice curve, then suddenly deforms, with the bend suddenly shifting and losing the smoothness..."
The linked test http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqWeyHfs0jk&feature=related is a particularly positive one because the rod ruptured rather than simply snapping - it means the design has distributed the stress - if it had snapped it can mean the design concentrates stress.

Have you broken an Angel or did that come from another forum thread?

Long term tests are often not practical. For rods I doubt they are terribly meaningful. When rods break young, first few casts, it tends to be due to manufacturing faults, mainly inclusions - all carbon composite rods suffer from those. More long term: car doors eat a lot; minor impacts lead to something like a bruise - a few broken fibers - and the next time that rod is heavily stressed over that point it snaps. As you know unlined rings wear depending on how and where a rod is used and how clean your lines are. So a long term piece would add little as far as I know.

I'm trying to introduce some re-visit type reviews, where I go back to a product that can have wear issues or is sufficiently unusual to mean it takes getting used to.

[Rob Brownfield]

If the Hardy Greys test rig means nothing to you, how can you say "Something not quiet right when you see it bending...it starts of with a nice curve, then suddenly deforms, with the bend suddenly shifting and losing the smoothness..."
The linked test http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqWeyHfs0jk&feature=related is a particularly positive one because the rod ruptured rather than simply snapping - it means the design has distributed the stress - if it had snapped it can mean the design concentrates stress.

Have you broken an Angel or did that come from another forum thread?

First the rig. Yes, it shows the rod has distributed stress..and its impressive...but it has no rings on it for starters, so the stresses are different. You dont have tiny flat spots on the rod where the ring feet are. Also, pulling from the tip stresses a rod different from "pulling on the rings", which loads the rod differently. Infact, you get a totally different curve on some rods.

As for broken Hardys...one Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall, one Swift Mk 1 in my garden just after I had finished building it for a customer. Have to say, that did come with a sticker saying Made in Korea....but naturally I removed that

People I know...one 9 foot 8 weight Angel smuggler on the Flats in Belize. Had not even put a line through it. Same chap, same "replacement" rod, up in the Orkneys, chest high in salt water, first cast. Very nice chap from Northumberland, 15 foot 10 weight on the Crathes beat a few weeks back, another chap the same week on Birse..might have been aboyne..can't rememebr, another chap in the Orvis shop buying a replacement for a 14 foot 9 weight....and the list actually goes on and on..have alook at the Speycaster forum from the States....and thats a British blank!!! 

and no..I have not personnally broken an angel as I wont use one..and would not pay that sort of moiney when I feel i can get better elsewhere....just my oppinion..and a growing band of ex Hardy users

[Sandy Nelson]

Have you broken an Angel or did that come from another forum thread?

As for broken Hardys...one Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall, one Swift Mk 1 in my garden just after I had finished building it for a customer. Have to say, that did come with a sticker saying Made in Korea....but naturally I removed that

People I know...one 9 foot 8 weight Angel smuggler on the Flats in Belize. Had not even put a line through it. Same chap, same "replacement" rod, up in the Orkneys, chest high in salt water, first cast. Very nice chap from Northumberland, 15 foot 10 weight on the Crathes beat a few weeks back, another chap the same week on Birse..might have been aboyne..can't rememebr, another chap in the Orvis shop buying a replacement for a 14 foot 9 weight....and the list actually goes on and on..have alook at the Speycaster forum from the States....and thats a British blank!!! 

and no..I have not personnally broken an angel as I wont use one..and would not pay that sort of moiney when I feel i can get better elsewhere....just my oppinion..and a growing band of ex Hardy users

So thats a NO then

I had finished building it for a customer. Have to say, that did come with a sticker saying Made in Korea....but naturally I removed that

Oooohhhhh you naughty boy

Sandy

[Magnus Angus]

"Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall"

Old Favourite? UK made. Elite fly rod? UK made. Swift Mk 1? I had one of the first and its still going strong.

Angel smuggler broke when he wiggled it for the first time? He waited until he arrived on the flats to assemble and wiggle his new rod? Are you kidding? Any idea if the rod was damaged in transit by baggage handlers, or by the user, or by sitting in a rack on the way to the flats? Did he assemble all the joints properly?

"and no..I have not personnally broken an angel"

So thats a NO then? 

[Rob Brownfield]

"Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall"

Old Favourite? UK made. Elite fly rod? UK made. Swift Mk 1? I had one of the first and its still going strong.

Angel smuggler broke when he wiggled it for the first time? He waited until he arrived on the flats to assemble and wiggle his new rod? Are you kidding? Any idea if the rod was damaged in transit by baggage handlers, or by the user, or by sitting in a rack on the way to the flats? Did he assemble all the joints properly?

"and no..I have not personnally broken an angel"

So thats a NO then? 

He was presented with the Angel as a retirement present on his retirement holiday of a lifetime in Belize...so no, I doubt he has wiggled it before hand.  ..and the same rod snapped again back in the UK after it was replaced...and as you well know, they come in a pretty strong tube, so I doubt it was damaged. As for assembling the rod correctly..well..he was retiring at 60 and had fished from a very young age, so one would assume he would know how to put together a rod 

[Rob Brownfield]

Oooohhhhh you naughty boy

Sandy

And why would that be? Would you leave a paper sticker on a rod butt if you were away to glue a handle where it was sitting? 

[Magnus Angus]

Rob

I've fished a few exotic locations. Its truly disappointing if the guy was let down by his rod. I've used Hardy and Greys rods all over the place and have yet to be let down. I carry spare rods reels and lines and make damned sure I've tested them before going.




Taken on a 15ft Greys.

Rob - as far as I know Angel rods have proven fragile - plenty reports of breakages. However those were made in the UK until recently. As for tubes - I sent a 14ft Angel to a friend in the States, perfectly sound when I despatched it, a broken section when it arrived - in an apparently undamaged tube. Shit happens.

[Rob Brownfield]

Indeed it does

Conversely, one of my carping buddies sent soem rods to France ahead of his weeks long trip. The tube was badly damaged, crushed etc..and the rods were fine.. so sometimes it doesn't happen




As for Hardy...I know it sounds like I bash them..but in reality I like a lot of there stuff  (marksman lines for example..Zane rod) and the direction they are going in. I have built 3 Swifts for folk, and not one has had a problem, and I see plenty of Hardy rods out on the river by me...I guess i am just dissapointed that they are not truely British anymore.

[Sandy Nelson]

I have built 3 Swifts for folk, and not one has had a problem,

Cept the one you broke in the garden

However it is a shame that things aren't british any more, but then what does that mean, most of our mass produced stuff (everything not just fishing) was pretty poor, like much mass produced stuff of days gone by.
Only difference now is the Mass produced stuff is a better quality, and they have started to compete with the exclusive products to the point where the exclusive stuff has had to adopt similar production techniques to compete.
Is this just a natural process of evolution certainly driven by finacial constraints and consumer demand.
Perhaps we are all to blame by expecting the quality without paying the premium, but when the premium is obviously not going on what you expect (ie where something is made and by who) i can see how we all get quite annoyed.
Still i think most stuff today is better than it has ever been, so something somewhere must work

Sandy

[Magnus Angus]

Rob

Some good points there. Seriously - would you go on a trip like that without a reserve and without fully testing a rod? For that matter do you go fishing far away from home without a backup? I know I don't. That has only been part of my fishing since carbon rods came on the scene - we all know they are far more fragile than glass-fibre or cane.
Use high stiffness fibre and push the limits of design and you have rods that may have a high attrition rate but are as light as is physically possible. Play safe, use high strength carbon and you reduce the breakage rate but the rod is heavier.

It does sound like you bash Hardy Greys. Personally I'd rather hear about the gear you have faith in than a half remembered mish-mash of rumors you hear on the web. Rob - GAC have recently been complimented on a thread by a guy who bought a rod at a very good price at a recent show - good for them? - sadly GAC didn't attend that show The web is a fantastic place to get information but its also loaded with bullshit.

Sandy
"it is a shame that things aren't british any more" - hmm! - British cars? Yearning for an Austin Allegro Sandy? 

"mass produced stuff is a better quality, and they have started to compete with the exclusive products to the point where the exclusive stuff has had to adopt similar production techniques to compete."

Pretty much how I think things are.

[Sandy Nelson]

Square steering wheels.

Positively a pure classic my man, absolutley

[Sandy Nelson]

Seriously though if we still made things then perhaps we would have something substantial on which to base a national economy, rather than just service industries, which may well keep people employed
but if you dont export things you have no new money coming in, unless its borrowed
And the money you do have is just being re-cycled, now i know re-cycling is PC but everytime you re-use something you lose a little of it.
Ever decreasing circles spring to mind.

I wonder where it ends

Sandy

Lets get back to fishing

[Rob Brownfield]

I have 4 Greys Prodigys, a Hardy Wye 13 foot cane salmon rod. I also used to have a pair of there Richard Walker 10 foot fibreglass rods ..oh..and i built a lovely 7 foot 6" Pike lure rod on a Hardy blank i bought direct from the factory. Stunning rod..and i truely mean that. Still use that almost on a weekly basis

Rods I have faith in..well..Centry Composites Armalites, FMJ,s, Kompressors etc..all british rolled and autoclaved. Also Harrison Chimeras (including the fly version), Ballistas (again fly too) and now there Lohrics. Again, all British and autoclaved.

Also like the Greys GRXi...think its a great rod.

Sage XP..after years of not liking Sage the XP suits my casting and I love it!

Hardy Ad Swier, and Elite

Liked the Loomis GLX..never owned one though

And lastly..I still love my Norboron..which I believe is far eastern??

I will leave out the Sportex, North Western Kevlites etc as they are only coarse rods

ps. I notice Peregrine rods are using the Harrisson Chimera blank for there range. British

Sorry..feeling patriotic tonight..probably because i have been fixing my Landrover..manufactured, built and sourced in the UK...so thats why if goes wrong so much