Fishing The Fly Scotland

Home => Rod Building => Topic started by: Andrew Molyneux on April 03, 2018, 22:43:56 PM

Title: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 03, 2018, 22:43:56 PM
Hi

I'm currently building my first rod, it's a olive fibreglass #4 rod. I bought natural and olive silk and was planning on doing clear wraps tipped with olive but when doing a colour check with water on the olive silk I changed my mind and will just use the olive silk as I liked the olive coloured wraps.

I'd like to keep the translucent effect that you can get with silk but keep the olive colour. Can I just coat with roddancer threadmaster lite or do I need to follow the same procedure as you would to get clear wraps and use a very diluted coat of treadmaster lite and flood the wraps?

Thanks
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Mike Barrio on April 03, 2018, 23:17:32 PM
Hi Andrew ...... welcome to the forum :z16

Sandy has probably got the most experience with this, but I think he might be offline for a few days.

Best wishes
Mike

Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 03, 2018, 23:28:15 PM
Thanks for the welcome Mike

I'm in no rush, I'd rather take my time and get it right than rush and make a mistake.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 04, 2018, 07:56:01 AM
Hi

I'm currently building my first rod, it's a olive fibreglass #4 rod. I bought natural and olive silk and was planning on doing clear wraps tipped with olive but when doing a colour check with water on the olive silk I changed my mind and will just use the olive silk as I liked the olive coloured wraps.

I'd like to keep the translucent effect that you can get with silk but keep the olive colour. Can I just coat with roddancer threadmaster lite or do I need to follow the same procedure as you would to get clear wraps and use a very diluted coat of treadmaster lite and flood the wraps?

Thanks

I have just done the same...here are some before and after photos of the olive silk on an olive blank:

Before,  (The wrap above the winding check is gold, so ignore that one).
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29101304_10155060107750806_3477173641299361792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=12b78ac7ac8272680dd55502a52c16da&oe=5B36BB76)
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28959125_10155060107705806_8677185078796746752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9e131b82e52062573122eae917e33b0f&oe=5B6260FB)

After, using a standard "lite" build epoxy (ProKote)
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29340480_10155078442865806_6977100541864181760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=700e307246765f4c1b5aaed93b670a91&oe=5B6FDCDA)
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29339667_10155078443165806_6609775430968803328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=86aebbff2750135b587f9771f29b816f&oe=5B739494)

Unfortunately I don't have one of the actual feet of the guides, but you can see them through the wraps quite clearly. Just watch for air bubbles in the tunnel between thread and foot. Just soak the thread with epoxy from the outside in and that should take care of that.  if you have time, I would use the thinned down first coat as eliminating the bubbles is far easier.

Hope this helps. Oh, the silk I used was actually classed as Chartreuse, but I knew it would darken down.  I wanted the wraps to still have some colour in them, but not be really bold.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 04, 2018, 08:19:19 AM
Thanks Rob, exactly what I wanted to know  :z16 and that rod build is pretty much what I'm aiming for.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 04, 2018, 08:25:20 AM
Thanks Rob, exactly what I wanted to know  :z16 and that rod build is pretty much what I'm aiming for.

You are welcome...possibly the same source of blank? Taniwha?
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 04, 2018, 10:56:19 AM
Yep, I've found Mark very helpful and his shop had everything I needed in one place.

Out of interest what do you think of the blank?
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 04, 2018, 12:54:31 PM
Yep, I've found Mark very helpful and his shop had everything I needed in one place.

Out of interest what do you think of the blank?

My review is on his ETSY site.  :z4

I was out on Sunday and as the fish were not playing, I had a muck about with leader lengths, casts, flies etc to try and find a weakness in the rod.

Super sweet delivery of dries on 9-12 foot leaders, even in an iffy wind.  Handled shorter casts with a duo rig, although when I went above about a 2.5mm tungsten bead and a few wraps of lead it started to struggle a little with the GT90 line. A switch to the SLX and it picked up and delivered heavier flies nicely.

It threw small woolly buggers nicely as well (slx), although I am tempted to go for the 6 weight blank for that...still not decided yet.

I really do think I will be leaving the 500+ carbons at home and will be fishing this rod an awful lot this year.

I also have one of Marks 10 foot 2 weight nano-helix rods I built. Oooosh! That's a stunner too!!! Superb grayling/French Nymph rod!
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 04, 2018, 16:57:31 PM
Thanks Rob, hopefully I'll like it as much as you. It's my first experience of rod building and it'll be my first experience of using a fibreglass rod.

Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 05, 2018, 08:00:59 AM
Thanks Rob, hopefully I'll like it as much as you. It's my first experience of rod building and it'll be my first experience of using a fibreglass rod.

Shout if you need any help...there are a few of us on here that have built a rod or two.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 07, 2018, 22:58:48 PM
Ok, so the rod is wrapped and the guides are lined up. The last step is the epoxying the threads, the step I'm most worried about so I thought I'd double check.

Do I need to dilute the lite finish 1 to 1 with DA and apply with a bodkin needle and then leave the rod with the guides down and don't turn it for 48hrs or dilute the epoxy with a lesser amount of DA and keep the rod turning and apply the finish with a brush?

I've been reading on the internet but people seem to say different things  :z8

Thanks
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 09, 2018, 08:34:22 AM
I've been reading on the internet but people seem to say different things  :z8

Welcome to the world of the internet!!...lol

Sandy may have a different idea on this so may be worth waiting for him to confirm, but this is the method I use:

http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7286

I don't use 50:50 though, I only add 1cc of Acetone to 3cc of epoxy...but I don't use Elexcote Lite....so maybe there is a difference in the brands of epoxy. As you can see in the photos, the guy gets a spot on finish so would suggest sticking to his advice if using FC Lite.

Real important bit is removing excess and the setting the rod with the guides down the way. Also, remember, as soon as you add Acetone, the epoxy set time is greatly INCREASED. Many think because its thinner it will take less time to dry. Nope. Last one I did took almost 4 days to stop being tacky.

Also, once done, keep the excess epoxy spread out on an old scrap of tin foil etc. and test this to see if it is set, not the epoxy on the rod itself :)
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 09, 2018, 12:34:24 PM
Cheers Rob.

I ended up following that set of instructions but used alcohol instead of acetone which get suggested further in the thread. The thread is a shade darker than I'd like but apart from that everything went perfectly, 24hrs later the excess epoxy is dry but the epoxy  on the rod feels ever so slightly tacky so I'm waiting.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 10, 2018, 07:57:10 AM
24hrs later the excess epoxy is dry but the epoxy  on the rod feels ever so slightly tacky so I'm waiting.

Indeed wait! ...I never do and I end up with a finish that could be better lol. (Not on other peoples rods!!, just my own).

It is amazing how dark the thread can go, even if you do a "wet test" first with just water, the epoxy seems to make it a shade or two darker.

Get some photos up :)

What reel seat did you go for?
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 10, 2018, 20:46:40 PM
I'll try to get some pics up when it's finished. I got the first coat of full strength epoxy on this morning, I must admit I was a little nervous at first as a balls up at this stage is a bit of a headache but it went well.

I went for a lemke LC1 up locking reel seat in nickel silver, I know that down locking reel seats are more traditional on a fibreglass build but I prefer the look of a up locking reel seat and as it my build that's what I did.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 11, 2018, 08:22:02 AM
I went for a lemke LC1 up locking reel seat in nickel silver, I know that down locking reel seats are more traditional on a fibreglass build but I prefer the look of a up locking reel seat and as it my build that's what I did.

I am normally the same, but I actually accidently ordered the wrong reel seat, a down locking one. However, after fitting, I am glad I had as it does balance perfectly. But, uplocking does look better in my eyes.

What insert have you got?
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 11, 2018, 12:11:51 PM
I went for rippled ash. Since I've started building the rod I notice that Taniwha Rodworks have added some more inserts, if I was to order again I might well go for one of the olive stained inserts.

I put the second coat of epoxy on this morning and the rod is turning as I type
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 11, 2018, 12:31:38 PM
Its the olive I have, super match!!

Rod will be ready for the weekend!!! Works stunningly well with Mikes GT90 or SLX 4 weights.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 11, 2018, 17:18:04 PM
Well the rod is off the turner.

For some reason I don't understand I have three tiny fish eyes, luckily it's only in the top layer of epoxy and unless I told you where they are you'd never notice. I think I'll leave them, I get the impression if I try to fix them I'll only make more of a mess.

I've been too heavy handed with the epoxy and most of the wrappings have an ever so slight rugby ball shape, they're particularly noticeable on the tip section. I was in a bit of rush this morning and I should have known better.  :X1

Overall I'm very pleased with the rod and I'm looking forward to fishing with it but that'll have to wait till next week. I'll post some pics up when the rod is fully dry.

Thanks for the help Rob :z16
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 12, 2018, 08:04:58 AM
Fish eyes are annoying and are usually caused by contamination. When I make mine I have plastic garden "closhes" that I place over the rod to protect it from dust, and particularly sprays such as furniture polish etc. They get put in place if I have a break from the whipping as well, just in case.

I also wash my hands several times during the whipping process...just in case.

They can be fixed if you notice them on the drier. Take a clean needle (I wash in acetone first) and just "scribble" around the effected area, moving the epoxy about and drawing it into the centre of the fisheye. If you notice after the epoxy has set, you can either clean really well with acetone/a rod cleaner and recoat, or, if you have a bit of a rugby ball going on, take some wet and dry and sand the epoxy back a bit, clean and then recoat.

As for he rugby balls...we have all been there :) If I am in a rush I tend to end up with them as well, or if the epoxy is going off it does not level well.  If I am doing for someone else, I tend to put 3-5 very thin coats on (I thin the epoxy slightly too) rather than a base then top coat. You get a lovely finish, but it take ages.

Having said all that, you have a rod you have built, don't worry about the looks too much, just get out there and enjoy! :)
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Andrew Molyneux on April 13, 2018, 13:26:45 PM
Well I sneaked out for an hour with the new rod today. Managed a few bites, on a mix of dirty dusters and mini klinks,  as they where all from wee grayling they proved hard hit and I only go two to hand.

At close range the rod was excellent but any distance and my loops where a little inconsistent which I'm sure is user error. The Barrio mallard 4wt paired nicely with the rod, I'd like to try a small stream line too.

(https://image.ibb.co/gzLE47/20180413_114151.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/mv6bHS/20180413_114205.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/eo6hrn/20180413_114224.jpg)

You can see the rugby ball shape on the guide whipping compared to the whipping on the female section.
Title: Re: Translucent guide whipping
Post by: Rob Brownfield on April 13, 2018, 13:45:07 PM
I am confused now...I thought we had the same blanks, but that looks more like the Epic Mark was selling.

As for the finish...nothing wrong with that...more than fishable and usable!! :)

Line wise, I am on a Barrio GT90. All the advice I could find suggested glass rods need a shortish front taper to carry the energy of the cast. Seems to work lovely.