Fishing The Fly Scotland

Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Hamish Young on 19/11/2007 at 19:19

Title: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Hamish Young on 19/11/2007 at 19:19
In light of certain things I've seen of late  :cry I thought it might be useful to have a 'sticky' topic about C&R. Idea being you can post your own ideas on how it should be done and, as I have done, add a link related to the topic  :z16

Here's quite a good one to start off with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_and_release
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Paul Rankine on 19/11/2007 at 20:04
Hi All,

If you positively intend to release the fish, fish single barbless hooks.

If you intend to release the fish or it seems to be too small already at distance, get it in quickly to stress it as little as possible . (Some thoughts on use of 3 and 4 wts with big fish ?).

Decide as early as possible if the fish will be released.

Don't net it unless you have to.

Take them with your hands if possible but best is not to touch them at all.

In a river you might want to wade into shallow or less turbulent water to land the fish there.
 
Don't squeeze the fish. Trout are especially vulnerable, and it's very easy to accidently squeeze the air out of its swim bladder , or worse .

Keep the fish as much as possible in the water, if possible unhooking it while it's still submerged .

Loosen the hook without grabbing the fish if possible. Let your hand slide down the line, grab the hook and try to loosen it ,locking forceps can of great help .

Take pictures " instantly" and with the fish as little out of the water as possible .

If the fish has to come out of the water, support it with one or two full hands to avoid unnecessary harm .

Never lift a fish by the tail or gills if it is to be released.

Let the fish swim away by itself. Don't throw it or splash it into the water. Hold it with a full hand or two and bring it gently under the surface.

In a river hold the fish until it revives. Don't let it tumble downstream .

Don't release until you see the gills working nicely and the fish kick.

(Mostly Martin Joergensen) .

Paul.

Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Sandy Nelson on 19/11/2007 at 20:20
I would agree with all Pauls points except his question :wink

I would add, always use wet hands when holding the fish, dry hands remove the fishes protective coating effectively Burning the fish :shock

As for the question, most 3 and 4 wts will bend more than heavier rods and absorb more of the fishes power, gently, The bending allows the lunges, large fish make, helping to prevent the jaws being ripped.
Stiffer rods break off more leaders and i think many people using them, fanny about when playing fish because they are afraid the leader will break, this is what cause the fish to stress IMHO. A nice mid action rod avoids this regardless of line weight. :z16
I would be inclined to suggest it is the rods action that allows you play a fish quicker and safer rather than line weight. Line weight is more to do with fly size than anything else. By default most 3/4 wts have a mid action and are softer, so in many cases they are probably better and quicker when it comes to landing fish :z12


Sandy

Hamish i know what you mean :mad
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: goosander on 19/11/2007 at 20:30
Reading the above advice on C. and R. i was wondering how you get fish to stay still when you have got it in as quickly as possible?
Am a great beliver that in the case of salmon that if they are that scarce that we have to release then then we should not be fishing for them in the first place. What right have we got to torture these creatures and play with what is a very good source of food.
Bows are diffrent being stocked at some time. One wonders what the point of fishing is when you go to heavly stocked waters were the fish can be easy to catch. Wheres the challange in that
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Hamish Young on 19/11/2007 at 20:34
Regardless of fish it deserves respect if you intend to release it  :wink

This thread is not about the philisophical or moral implications of C&R - more about how it should be carried out correctly  :z16
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Sandy Nelson on 19/11/2007 at 20:36
Well put. :z14
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/11/2007 at 00:59
Sandy is spot on with his comments regarding the 3wt/4wt question in my opinion, we researched this extensively at the fishery when developing the Barrio 3wt fly rod with fish up to the mid teens in weight.

I have also noticed that a reasonable sized trout ( say 4 to 5 lbs or more ) is better released from the net in the water rather than simply trying to unhook over the side of the boat ........ as this frequently leads to broken nylon and hooks left in the fish.

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Sandy Nelson on 20/11/2007 at 08:41
i was wondering how you get fish to stay still when you have got it in as quickly as possible?

I've been thinking about this most of the night and the statement actually is misleading.
When we refer to landing a fish as soon as possible, i believe what is meant is tiring the fish out quickly (by bending your rod into it) so when you net it, it is on its side and already recovering, then it will placidly sit in the net while the barbless hook falls out( more often than not). Fish landed like this will quickly recover and kick off strongly.

If you drag a fish in too fast without actually tiring it then it will thrash about in the net and will damage itself, it will also be damned difficult to unhook. At the risk of repeating myself this is much easier to do with a stiffer/powerful rod hence why sometimes the misconception about playing a fish quickly leads to the fish getting hauled in, without getting tired. I suppose people are just doing what it suggested, as they are correct if we take the statement literally :z6

So get the fish in quickly should perhaps read, play the fish firmly till its on its side then quickly net and return the fish. :? But i suppose peoples definition of firm will be the decisive factor, how does one quantify a personal measure so that others can understand ???

Sandy
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: ArtfulDodger84 on 20/11/2007 at 08:52
Two things which unfortunately i see too often, is laying a fish on the ground and the fish ends up kicking onto gravel/stones and also anglers allowing fish to come into contact with their clothing.  Both of which would have a worse effect than dry hands in burning the fish.

A good thread and good responses, this is something all young anglers should be taught and i guess some older ones too.

Chris
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Dutchfly on 20/11/2007 at 12:52
To keep a fish still, all you have to do is to cover its eyes with a wet cloth. Works with pike anyway...

CU

Jeroen
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Paul Rankine on 20/11/2007 at 13:22
Sandy,
          "I would agree with all Pauls points except his question " .     EH   !!!

No answer was  implied . The question was asked to stimulate a response,  and make a point .
 
I generally agree with what you say about rod line weights and rod actions.

 Of far more importance than rod action though is the MANNER of playing the fish .

Too many anglers let the fish play them in my experience.

Paul.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Sandy Nelson on 20/11/2007 at 20:06
contact with their clothing.  Both of which would have a worse effect than dry hands in burning the fish.

Chris, I would agree with the contact thing but I always thought it was our body temp that affected the fishes skin once the slime was removed, the wet hands are to cool the skin as well as stop the slime being removed. :z8 Knotted nets used to do similar things.

Sandy

is a paradox a dry fly or just a couple of mallards:z6
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: fishfingers on 21/11/2007 at 00:27
i don,t believe a net is needed, have you tried a c&r tool its handy and easy to use,i use it without netting r touching my catch,the net may come into play where a much larger fish is caught and played for a time and may need a little more recovery time,i think the netted fish is better off than one that has been handled.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 21/11/2007 at 00:52
Hi "fishfingers"

Yes, good points, smaller fish can be released very well with a c&r tool like the "ketchum release" for example and by simply running your fingers down the tight nylon until you come to the hook and can remove it.

A larger, lively fish can be more tricky though and I frequently see these take a last minute lunge, snapping the cast or leader and swimming off with the angler's fly. In this case the net would have been a better option :wink

On the topic of nets ....... you are not going to believe this, but I still see folk turning up with knotted landing nets :shock I do not know of any loch or river where this is not breaking the rules!

I spent a lot of time last year researching nets for use at the fishery, many of the game fishing ones on the market have large mesh which I found tangled and damaged gills and fins. I have chosen to provide coarse fishing nets with micro mesh and I am very pleased with them.

Best wishes
Mike Barrio
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: fishfingers on 22/11/2007 at 00:59
yeh ok mike thanks for the reply, and your advice on micro mesh nets will take a look at these when i get some time,by :z1
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: JIMBOB on 22/11/2007 at 16:07
I've always wondered when you see the captor holding a large trout for the photo shoot, if any of these fish are put back. Of course it's always good to have a photo of a good fish but as far as I'm concerned it's more important to respect the fish and if this means only getting a picture of it in the water, net or not, then so be it.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Jay Scott on 22/11/2007 at 19:08

I think i agree with everything being said.. personally i net fish when fishing from a boat as it makes them easier to hand and less time out of the water and struggleing about, i also use a ketchum release for instance when fishing at haddo on Monday with buzzers the fish were taking them and i was always hooking them on the top lip and was really hard to unhook the fish with as least amount of time and handling and the ketchum release seemed to do the job instantly. Bank i usually just hand unless it's a big fish. I think everyone one has their own preference whever using a toll and a net or not all thats important is that the fish goes back safely with no slime being removed fully recovered and as little stress as possible.

Cheers, Jay
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: monsterfish on 23/11/2007 at 18:52
Personally I prefer to use a net for anything over 4lbs.  This allows me to release the fish without even touching it.  I often see anglers ,who have nets, trying to "beach" their fish because they are going to release it.  They do not play the fish long enough and it ends up thrashing around on stones or shingle.  Other anglers wade into the water, grabbing at the fish and end up squeezing it.  From a boat it is much easier to break the nylon when trying to release a fish without a net.

When taking photos, I would never lift the fish higher than a couple of inches out of the water incase it struggles and gets dropped.

The ketchum hook remover is very effective for small fish but I don't like it for releasing larger specimens, that tend to struggle more.

I do think that catch and release has been carried out by the majority of anglers very well.  There is a minority of anglers who don't but are quickly reminded of how to do it properly. :grin
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 26/11/2007 at 13:41
Mike,
Have you seen the rubber mesh nets available for coarse anglers. they are based on the nets used in the salmon farming industry in Norway, but smaller micro or Minnow mesh. They have taken the Bream fishing market by storm as they remove next to no slime and shake dry afterwards, which would be great for you storing nets at the fishery. Well worth a look for the sake of your fish and of the smell in the summer  :wink

Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Duncan McRae on 26/11/2007 at 15:14
Loads of good suggestions in this thread.I think we all know good catch + release techniques inside out.The problem which i have is actually putting them into practice.
Most of my fishing is for salmon and sea trout on several Don and Ythan beats and i must say that on most occasions netting is the only way to land a fish.There always seems to be an obstacle in the way e.g high banks,dense vegetation or deep mud at the bankside.I can never find a quiet shallow bay when i need it!
In such places, returning the fish can be as difficult as landing it.There is nothing worse than seeing a tired fish floating away belly up because it has been released in an unsuitable spot before it has recovered.
I have seen myself covering several hundred yards of bank to find a spot where i can hold the fish until it has enough strength to swim off.This is not ideal catch + release but i feel it is preferable to simply dumping the fish in the river and hoping that it recovers.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: gunner100 on 26/11/2007 at 21:56
Hi Duncan,

Recognise the problem. When I started Salmon fishing, before C & R, my mentor advised that before  I started casting, I work out where I was going to land the fish. It made sense. If you can bring the fish in to the net relatively easily it is more than likely that in the current C & R ethos you will also be able to release it in the same spot without too much difficulty.

Lyall
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 27/11/2007 at 01:02
Mike,
Have you seen the rubber mesh nets available for coarse anglers. they are based on the nets used in the salmon farming industry in Norway, but smaller micro or Minnow mesh. They have taken the Bream fishing market by storm as they remove next to no slime and shake dry afterwards, which would be great for you storing nets at the fishery. Well worth a look for the sake of your fish and of the smell in the summer  :wink


Hi Rob

Rubber Fish Nets ................... No, I don't think I'll try those :shock :z4

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 27/11/2007 at 08:15
LOL..cheeky sod! Very good bit of kit though.

Duncan,
I have held fish in the net from a high bank in the past. I let them recover before inverting the net and letting them swim away. Its not ideal, but its better than falling in yourself or having to carry the fish up the bank with all the risks that involves.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Duncan McRae on 27/11/2007 at 12:13
Lyall

A very good point.I'm usually so eager to start fishing that i don't consider the potential landing problems until i've hooked the fish!


Rob

After all my years of fishing i'm surprised that i hadn't considered this technique.
You would need a very robust net for this and it must be difficult to keep the fish upright while it recovers.


Duncan
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 27/11/2007 at 12:46
Duncan,
its not perfect, but its better than nowt. With Pike and Barbel I use a triangular net with a fairly large mesh so water flows through easy. Having a "flat" edge means you can hold the fish, head upstream, along the "flat" by holding some of the mesh, if that makes sense?

With round nets its better to hold the fish close to the edge out the main current. again, with a bit of practice you can get the fish to sit pretty much upright. I have managed to return large grayling like this from very high banks on the Isla.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: benbryant on 28/11/2007 at 13:19
A study carried out by Schill et al. 1997. In to the effects of barbed and barbless hooks on fish mortlity in catch and release trout, found there was no significance between the two, "Managers proposing new special regulations to the angling public should consider the social costs of implementing barbed hook restrictions that produce no demonstrable biological gain". The paper poses many questions, i have never been a fan of barbed hooks, i believe however it maybe down to the way a hook is removed from the mouth of a fish by the angler that may do the damage, not the hook it's self.

Ben.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Iain Goolager on 28/11/2007 at 15:35
Ben,
It's hard to believe that, although there may not be any significance from a mortality standpoint between using barbed and barbless hooks, that there is no difference in the physical damage & subsequent trauma caused when the hooks are being removed - note that this is generalising as sometimes the hook falls out no problem. I'm speaking from seeing fish have their scissors torn from people trying to remove large (typically lures) barbed hooks. 
 That said I had a trip not so long ago that when I had a bugger of a job removing a size 14 barbless (not debarbed) hook - the fish had the point firmly inserted in the hard boney nib of the snout.
I think that although there have been various catch and release methods stated in the posts the general opinion seems to be that fish preservation is having the correct attitude rather than being a definiative art.

Question: - how well is the policy of fishing barbless once ones bag limit is reached adhered to or even policed? This would be a positive step in people realising that a barbless hook does not instantly mean a lost fish.

Question: - how many people use barbless hooks when fly fishing for Broonies on a river? I ask because how often do you get a day when parr and the like commit hari kari on your fly & these hooks appear even more menacing when in a wee mouth.

I'd like to think that I treat every fish respectfully - after all I spend a wad of cash & most of my free time (well did until having a wee boy) on my prefered sport so why damage the thing that makes it all worthwhile!?

Unfortunately I do have moments where fish snap off (don't try to hand release a large trout from a boat - sorry Mike!) but fortunately these are very few and far between and I'm constantly learning.


Thanks for listening!

Iain
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 28/11/2007 at 16:39
Ben and Iain,
Many fisheries down south are now banning BARBLESS hooks. It has been found that on many fish, but mainly Carp, Tench, Bream, Chub and Barbel that barbless hooks can tear through the flesh on a hard fight. The barbed hook holds in one position far better and resists tearing during the twists of a fight.

Trout are interesting as there mouths are a little different in that they have a hard outer but relatively soft inner. Certainly, for Pike, I use Barbless due to the boney nature of the jaw and little risk of tearing.

Where barbless do come into there own is if a fish is deeply hooked, for very obvious reasons. I have used both barbed, barbless and de-barbed hooks for trout and I have found no difference at all to tell the truth...but then I only use very small hooks for trout. A large, rank barb on a size 2 long shank lure hook is always going to be more of a problem.

One thing that has always concerned me was the use of barbes doubles and trebles on Salmon rivers when Parr have been a problem. Salmon hooks tend to have a rather large barb and times that by two or three and you potentially have an item that could seriously damage a Parr even if the angler was careful. Certain times of the year I would like to see single, barbless hooks for salmon on the rivers to protect the Parr.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 28/11/2007 at 21:36
Hi folks

I'm a great believer in barbless or de-barbed hooks, hence Haddo is barbless or de-barbed flies at all times. IMHO anglers hook more fish ( less misses ) and I do not think that they lose more fish. They certainly help when it comes to releasing fish in the net.

The biggest bonus of fishing barbless or de-barbed flies is that they are so much easier to take out of your own face, fingers, neck etc etc :wink ........... Before starting at the fishery, I would never have imagined that so many folk hook themselves :shock

Best wishes
Mike

Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: ANDREW BEBBINGTON on 28/11/2007 at 22:25
Agree with Mike on the flies being debarbed / barbless, since changing to barbless or debarbed hooks in spring there has been no noticable diferance in catches at pitfour. I personally prefer barbless as debarbing can still snag in to a fish.

As for policeing this it is not the easiest, all you can do as a fishery manager is remind people of the policy, you can not really insist that someone debarbs all there flies before you let them on your water, you have to have some trust in your customers.

When it comes to small fish i would of said barbless hooks are much easier to remove for a smaller mouth,

as rob says barbless hooks are easier to remove when fish are deeped hooks, and as mike says they are far more easier to remove from youself than a barbed hook saw a fly in a eyebrow a couple of weeks ago (which was not debarbed) and the guy ended up headed for a+e were a barbless hook would of just sliped out easy.

Why is it that barbless flies are so much harder to get hold off than barbed ones  :?

andrew
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 28/11/2007 at 23:16
Hi Andrew

Yes, most folk don't realise just how painful a barbed hook can be to remove from oneself and how difficult :z6

Most seem to think that it will happen to someone else, or is just a problem for beginners :z6

I have seen some very experienced anglers hooking themselves, or worse still somebody else :oops

I have approached a good number of the major fly companies and asked for barbless flies ......... they are not interested :mad Some make a few patterns available at a premium price :roll this is rubbish :mad

It should not cost any more to produce a barbless hook or to supply flies tied on them :! They are not interested because it would mean doubling their range and of course their stockholding :shock

 :z17 There is certainly room for at least one supplier to go barbless only :z17

It appears that even as a trade customer, I still do not have the "clout" to make them sit down and put some serious thought in to this :roll

I would love to see an angler campaign on this :cool: Many of you visit various forums ........ would it be possible to spread the word and do a mass sending of "letters" to all the magazines asking for barbless flies?

What do you think folks :?

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Peter McCallum on 28/11/2007 at 23:28
I was told a number of years ago by no less than the late Alan Bramley of partridge fame that the barb was an important part of the hook making process. The bend was formed by holding the hook barb in a notch in the former and bending the hook wire round the former to make the bend, then the eye was formed. The point being that a barbless hook former had to be more complicated to hold the hook onto the former.

Peter
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 28/11/2007 at 23:35
That's interesting Peter, I didn't know that :z3

But there are barbless hooks available on the market and some are very good ........ so once the former is made, I would have thought that they could produce hooks in large enough numbers to cost the same as barbed, or even if they were only slightly dearer, the flies could cost more or less the same within reason?

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: ANDREW BEBBINGTON on 28/11/2007 at 23:56
Yes it can be painfull to have a hook sink into yourself been there done that, the other one i have seen is hooks in the tounge with folk holding a fly on there lip while doing something else or while tying it on to the line and getting it bedded in :oops

What barbless hooks i have got hold of in the past have always been about the same price and prob less than 1p a hook, so i can not see a reason why barbless flies should not be the same price.

i have had the same problem with the fly companies they tell me that barbless flies are dearer because they pay more for the hook as they order then in smaller amounts there is less discount for bulk buying,

What i find odd is that there is such a wide range of shapes and sizes of coarse fishing hooks available with them mainly being barbless and cheaper than the same hooks in barbed, suppose its the opposite of fly hooks as there is less demand for the barbed versions.

andrew
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 29/11/2007 at 08:41
It is definately a unique position with UK Game anglers. My self and an associate (McFluffchucker...his shop is on E-bay) tie Pike flies for customers and we never tie barbed ones, as no one would actually buy them! My dutch friend who runs a successful guiding service fly fishing over in Holland/Germany will only buy barbless flies or tie his own patterns on barbless and many of the patterns I see in the American fly fishing mags I get have trout flies, especially dries, tied on barbless.

soooooo, someone out there is selling the hooks and making the flies, just not in the UK. My partner brought a heap of flies back from the States for me, and she sat there while the guy in the shop tied them for her. They cost a little more but they are stunningly dressed...on barbless hooks.

I would love to see a survey in the Trout mags to see what peoples opinions are. I think there weill be a distinct split between anglers that only or have only fished for trout and anglers that have come from a coarse background or also fish regularly for coarse fish.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 29/11/2007 at 18:01
Hi Rob

Yes, game anglers are the same ......... many "self employed type" suppliers tie on barbless, folk tying in shops often use barbless and most folk that tie their own that I know, use barbless too :wink

We were talking about "the big guns", the main distributors to shops and fisheries etc. They source their product from overseas in huge bulk orders and then wholesale throughout the UK, or have online shops and sell flies at very competitive prices. They have a fairly strong hold of the market and are not keen to double their stock holding by duplicating their flies on barbless hooks .......... and none of them appear to have the vision to simply swapover to barbless!

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 30/11/2007 at 09:07
Mike,
Maybe I was not very clear...as always!  :wink

What I was trying to say is that if a major supplier switched to barbless, the vast masses would go and buy elsewhere....I think :)
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 30/11/2007 at 17:11
Mike,
Maybe I was not very clear...as always!  :wink

What I was trying to say is that if a major supplier switched to barbless, the vast masses would go and buy elsewhere....I think :)

Hi Rob
I had understood :z13

Yes that is quite possibly what the suppliers think ........... BUT .......... IMHO this is wrong, I am confident that the first major supplier to go barbless would in fact gain a larger customer base :wink

I would also suggest that a high proportion of stocked fisheries would be keen to retail their flies :cool:

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 03/12/2007 at 12:59
Well Mike,
You supply the hooks and material, we will all tie up the flies and we can all retire by next Spring  :z16

I just had a look at the major hook manufacturers websites (Partridge, Tiemco, Kamasan, Gamakatsu etc) and there is your answer. The range of Barbless is unbelievably limited. A large number of popular flies could not be dressed presently...but that leaves a chicken and egg situation i guess....no barbless flies without the hooks, and no hooks without the flies.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: salar35 on 13/12/2007 at 13:54
Many folk don't like using a net at all, but it does afford the opportunity to keep the fish under close control at the point of release. And when fishing for fresh spring salmon in particular, the mess which grounding/beaching that fish can do to its silvery scales and protective slime, is substantial..................for that form of angling, I'd recommend a suitably large and fully pre-wetted net every time. Mike, do they manufacture salmon-sized meshes in the close-mesh material which you describe, and would that narrow mesh size be practicable when trying to net a fish in a strong current?  Dave
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 16/12/2007 at 17:17
Hi Dave

No, the coarse net heads that I use don't come any larger, but they do hold an 18 lb trout, so I guess they would be fine in most cases :wink

Not sure about the narrow mesh in the current, I've only used these ones on Haddo. Kev Danby might be able to help with this as I think he uses a similar one on the Don for trout?

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: salar35 on 17/12/2007 at 10:42
Thanks Mike

I even managed to snap my Whitlock salmon net on one occasion at Castle Forbes 3 when trying to manoeuvre it behind a big spring fish in a very strong bankside current. And that was with the normal knotless wide-mesh net material. (I eventually hand-tailed the fish and Sharpe's later did a first class and very cheap job on the repair). But that's a good point about potential lateral fin damage from larger meshes.  I do definitely see the benefit in using the softer narrower coarse-fishing net material.........I'll be interested to hear from others.

Dave
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Kev Danby on 18/12/2007 at 13:30
Some of the specimen nets for carp, pike and barbel would be big enough but as you have pointed out the drag caused by the current makes this difficult to use (especially backing a fish into the net). I do use a coarse fish net for the trout, the net is quite shallow and a bit smaller than Mikes. The current does not seem to affect it and it will cope with double figure fish on still waters, in a current I wouldn't be comfortable with a fish of that size in a small net.

Something like this might be suitable as the mesh size is larger how robust it would be in a strong current is another matter
http://www.bosfish.co.uk/products/NETS/dw453carp.htm

http://www.harrissportsmail.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=2210

One disadvantage is that they don't do a large size folding net in the smaller mesh sizes.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 18/12/2007 at 21:08
Thanks Kev

Been thinking about the salmon nets :z17 ......... I think the answer might be to get a fine soft mesh replacement net ( net only, no frame ) and try fitting it to an existing good quality salmon net frame?

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Sandy Nelson on 20/12/2007 at 17:43
I've done that before.When the knotless nets first became available, i converted a sharpes belmont.

Its fairly straightforward  :z16

Sounds like a plan

Sandy
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Tam Greenock on 04/01/2008 at 16:08
Just been watching A passion for Angling on Discovery and l dont think we should use their preferred method of catch and release, one of them actually sent his dog into The Spey to catch a brownie that he had played to death for the cameras, the dog snapped away a couple of times at the fish before getting it in its jaws, the fish was then held up for a picture then released. Now l realise that this programme is maybe 20 years old but still shocking behaviour from two pro's.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 09/01/2008 at 08:16
Tam,
Bob and Chris are two of the most caring, passionate anglers you could ever wish to meet. That scene you talk of was very much done to play upto the cameras and i can assure you is not normal practice for Bob.

Just a side note, a mate from Blairgowrie has two black Labs and one of them takes great delite in jumping into the Ericht at Cargills leap, and extracting a salmon or too itself. These fish never have a mark on them as the Labs are trained gun dogs and have "soft mouths", to use a shooting term. I am pretty sure the trout in question was released totally unharmed. From what i remember it was shown in close up on the programme and i certainly do not remember any marks on it.

As I say, it was done for the cameras, rightly or wrongly.
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 24/02/2008 at 19:59
Mike,
Have you seen the rubber mesh nets available for coarse anglers. they are based on the nets used in the salmon farming industry in Norway, but smaller micro or Minnow mesh. They have taken the Bream fishing market by storm as they remove next to no slime and shake dry afterwards, which would be great for you storing nets at the fishery. Well worth a look for the sake of your fish and of the smell in the summer  :wink



Hi Rob

I ordered one up to see what they're like .......... I am surprised, the one that I have bought feels quite harsh and abrasive :z6 Do they go softer in the water or something?

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Charlie on 10/05/2008 at 22:40
Interesting subject, I note that out here in the colonies, down under, our fisheries are in the process of "viewing fish released" after capture with cameras and release into cages to view their recovery and so far the jury is out on best ways but you cant better wet hands and TLC, I'll post their answers when get the results, looking forward to fishing Haddo in Sept when I get over to see mum
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Mike Barrio on 11/05/2008 at 00:54
Interesting subject, I note that out here in the colonies, down under, our fisheries are in the process of "viewing fish released" after capture with cameras and release into cages to view their recovery and so far the jury is out on best ways but you cant better wet hands and TLC, I'll post their answers when get the results, looking forward to fishing Haddo in Sept when I get over to see mum

Hi Charlie
Welcome to the forum :z16

Yes, wet hands and TLC go a long way. It will be interesting to see what the results of the experiment "Down Under" produce.

I look forward to seeing you again in September
Best wishes
Mike Barrio
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Charlie on 12/05/2008 at 08:55
most of our trout are al caught and set free by careing anglers and its the larger girls that seem to need the care our young ones just bolt, however big barramundi 40lbs + seem to need so long to revive them and so the dept are working on them to see what can be learned that might apply to all species, Ive hung over the edgefor 10 minutes trying to push weater trhu her gills and eventually a tail flip and a bite down on your finger/thumb tells you she's ready, we always use knotless nets and dont remove them from it to weigh or if a photo is needed then its minimal time and be sure to support the tummy, I cry when I see fish hung from the bottom jaw, its good to see our juniors actying responsibly, maybe they are more mature than we give them credit for
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Charlie on 24/05/2008 at 08:31
Most recent results over 4 species held in on board live wells of 70liters capaciy (mine is over 90L) or larger, or nets/cages 2 cu mtr, set in the lake, is that over 90% and up to 98% were fine and once set free bolted off, even a few were recaught and fought just as well as the first time, all were caught as part of a week long tournament and by good anglers, wet hands, the towel over the eyes and held upside down, barbless hooks and larger fish soted in the net not on board, all fish if handled were held in at least 2 places not hung up by the bottom lip, I see your anglers and I'm proud of their handling, clearly its a weekend casual angler or an ill informed angler who is doing the most damage, so maybe its up to us to educate others, a fish is too valuable to catch it only once, I think the ball is back in our court, teach by example
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: Barry Robertson on 06/10/2008 at 08:52
Hi All,

If you positively intend to release the fish, fish single barbless hooks.

If you intend to release the fish or it seems to be too small already at distance, get it in quickly to stress it as little as possible . (Some thoughts on use of 3 and 4 wts with big fish ?).

Decide as early as possible if the fish will be released.

Don't net it unless you have to.

Take them with your hands if possible but best is not to touch them at all.

In a river you might want to wade into shallow or less turbulent water to land the fish there.
 
Don't squeeze the fish. Trout are especially vulnerable, and it's very easy to accidently squeeze the air out of its swim bladder , or worse .

Keep the fish as much as possible in the water, if possible unhooking it while it's still submerged .

Loosen the hook without grabbing the fish if possible. Let your hand slide down the line, grab the hook and try to loosen it ,locking forceps can of great help .

Take pictures " instantly" and with the fish as little out of the water as possible .

If the fish has to come out of the water, support it with one or two full hands to avoid unnecessary harm .

Never lift a fish by the tail or gills if it is to be released.

Let the fish swim away by itself. Don't throw it or splash it into the water. Hold it with a full hand or two and bring it gently under the surface.

In a river hold the fish until it revives. Don't let it tumble downstream .

Don't release until you see the gills working nicely and the fish kick.

(Mostly Martin Joergensen) .

Paul.



I think a sign of this info should be posted around fisheries to let people know what is required of them. I can understand new anglers handling fish poorly until they are told or shown the correct method. It is still sad to see experienced anglers netting fish, pulling them out the water and literally throwing the fish back into the water. Its amazing the amount of fish that are swimming around covered in paw prints due to poor handling!
Title: Re: Catch and release - good practice
Post by: lenap on 12/02/2009 at 18:22
while i agree with a lot of c/r views, the major reason for carefull  fish return is the lactic acid that the fish muscles produce in its attempt to survive. its the lactic acid overload that has put the fish in its " drugged " or lethargic state. i always land a fish on the left side of my pontoon boat, having kept my net in the water also reduces the fishes reaction to something else to contend with. keeping the fish in the water, i use kelly clamp or hemostats to remove my lightly barbed hook. next with wetted hands i will work the fish if nessessery to work water thru its guills. i will stay with this fish untill it swims away with no effort. i must also add that i will not over play a fish ,to help ensure its survival. its great to have fish splash water at you as they depart for home.