Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Derek Roxborough on 03/02/2017 at 18:59
-
It seems the Wild fish reform bill is being shelved , so no criminalisation of Anglers , no Levy, no Rod licence, no Bill, seems Rosanna Cunning ham has seen the light :z14 easgach 1
-
Interesting - we'll see if it rises like a phoenix from the ashes in a few years time :z16
-
In the flesh......
http://news.gov.scot/news/wild-fisheries
-
Interesting news ............. :z16
-
Central Belt invasion on the cards..... End of angling clubs as we know them...... Who will buy a ticket for "free" fishing.?... It's politics where "poli" means lots of them, and "tics" mean blood sucking parasites ! This is what Ross Finnie tried to do when he proposed scrapping the Protection Orders about 10 years ago. Hopefully common sense will prevail.
-
So what does that mean for the Don protection order? The message on the website looks like you can fish for trout now without permission???
-
I suspect the status quo will prevail, if the Bill has been shelved in the interim it strikes me there's little chance of there being any will at Holyrood Towers to do anything other than consider the last 3 years as a 'consultative process'.
It's my hope all the POs in place will continue to be there until something more suitable comes along.
H :cool:
-
I wonder how much it cost the Tax payer? :z8 easgach 1
-
The SG have opened a whole can of worms on this one.
Lots of posts all over the internet saying "Good, free fishing again". I was speaking to a fellow angler from Stirling yesterday who said folk are fishing Menteith from the bank because they believe they can fish for free!
From the other side of the fence, the Scottish Carp Group, The Scottish Federation of Coarse Anglers and the Pike Anglers Alliance of Scotland, between them representing some 8,000 anglers have said that they are extremely disappointed that the SG have failed to protect coarse fishing in Scotland, or recognise the economic contribution that visiting coarse anglers bring to Scotland.
-
Interesting post Rob, you have to consider that the species you mention aren't native,according to the Chairman of the local salmon fishing board , Pike are an invasive predatory species and should not be returned to the water, not my words but he says it is written in law, so how would that sit with a protection order? locally we have a trout loch with Pike in it , we do not put pike back as we would like to stop feeding the pike with the trout, it's a very emotive subject , we would like just to control the pike, we know we cannot eradicate them , luckily we find some of the larger trout feed on the smaller pike, so there seems to be some sort of balance, easgach 1
-
Interesting post Rob, you have to consider that the species you mention aren't native,according to the Chairman of the local salmon fishing board , Pike are an invasive predatory species and should not be returned to the water, not my words but he says it is written in law, so how would that sit with a protection order? locally we have a trout loch with Pike in it , we do not put pike back as we would like to stop feeding the pike with the trout, it's a very emotive subject , we would like just to control the pike, we know we cannot eradicate them , luckily we find some of the larger trout feed on the smaller pike, so there seems to be some sort of balance, easgach 1
What local salmon board are we talking about here?
I must add that no where in Scottish Law is there a law forbidding the return of Pike to the water. There are some by-laws that have been brought in, such as by the Dumfries and Galloway Salmon board that states fish under 5lbs should not be returned, but that is not very different to a nation wide "law" and does not forbide the return of all pike.
I will not go into the non-native argument, there is plenty of evidence to blow that out of the water (excuse the pun).
-
Necessary to differentiate between most Coarse fish and Pike here I feel. Pike are as native to many Scottish waters as Brown Trout whereas Bream are as native as.... errr...... Rainbow Trout are :X2 Sure they've been introduced all over the place - but so have Trout.
There is a 'thing' here which needs to be clear, there is a significantly large indigenous population of Coarse Fish here in Scotland, not all across Scotland it's true but many are native species. Like anywhere we go and 'manage' the habitat to suit whim and fancy some poor bloody fish inevitably becomes some sort of invasive species after a few generation of anglers and scientists.
If it's a fair representation of the comments made by the Chairman of a DSFB then I'm afraid he must have been the one holding the door when the brains were dished out .....or he has never got past the copious quantities of weed in the 60s, LSD in the 70's and the cocaine he must arguably still be doing. Either that or he has the biggest feckin blinker set known to man and an ignorance unbecoming his position.
But that's just my view.
-
well, there you go, pike are an introduced species above the highland line, as are many other coarse species
should we be giving them the same protection as our Native species? it's the Wester Ross DSFB, by the way
it reminds me a bit of the Pheasant, some people wishing to shoot Native Buzzards to Protect Pheasants, but I digress, you must admit it does liven up the forum somewhat, :X2 easgach 1
-
pike are an introduced species above the highland line,
Records during the 1726 freshwater "fishes" survey mention Pike as far north as Loch Ness, Loch Garry and Loch Arkaig. They are native to the British Isles
Rainbow Trout, first introduced to Scotland in 1885, are a completely alien species to the UK.
Here are some sentences lifted from various scientific papers.:-
- Introductions to locations outside their native range in the United States , Southern Europe, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand and South America have damaged native fish species.
Introduced populations may affect native species by preying on them, out-competing them and transmitting contagious diseases.
Rainbow trout are predators with a varied diet and will eat nearly anything they can capture.
They also eat fish eggs.
Other prey include small fish up to one-third of their length, crayfish, shrimp, and other crustaceans.
In rivers and streams populated with other salmonid species, rainbow trout eat varied fish eggs, including those of salmon, grayling and brown trout.
And yet they are stocked all over Scotland (Wester Ross in particular) in areas where the native Brown Trout are struggling or have indeed been pushed out by Rainbows. According to the SG, 4.7m Rainbows were introduced to waters in Scotland in 2015.
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00510483.pdf
Now that's an invasive species!, and I am pleased to say that the SG have recognised this and changed the rules around stocking them.
:z7
-
Living in Wester ross, I have not heard of Rainbows ousting the Browns at least on our waters, the nearest rainbow fishery is at Tarvie about 45 miles east of here, I know of no others , our club tried rainbows many years back, but they were gone in a couple of seasons, so any other stocking was done with Browns, we have a pike loch stocked there in Victorian times, so not Native, we have Minnows which were brought in by the Drop minnow "experts" and dumped at the end of the day , Ok we have these fish but should we protect them at the expense of truly Native species?, it's a can of worms Rob, we will be protecting Mink these seem to be coming Naturalised , should we? I just thought There is a new Rainbow fishery in Assynt using one of the local lochs , easgach 1
-
Reading this thread has given me terrible Sherlock like flashbacks and headaches to two different strands of life familiar both in the Highlands and the western Norwegian Islands off Askvol.
1. The never ending and ever increasingly expensive debate and debacle of Scottish Inshore Fisheries - that is sea fisheries to the 6 or 12 mile limit depending on how big, and how expensive an argument you want. As the chairman of the failed Highland Regulating Order, originally a SCOTTISH Government initiative I spent five years becoming more jaded while listening to "experts". The parenthesis are deliberate. What defines an expert? Easy you say - one who is very knowledgable on the subject. No. No. No No No. That would be far too logical. Let's throw in;
Knowledgeable purely about the subject with no axe to grind ar career to build - sorry never met one!
One with expert opinions who has no preconceived solution before spouting forth - sorry, never met one!
Perhaps one who has a wealth of experience working within the given subject but, again has no axe to grind - nope! Sorry never met one.
Nature management - an impossibility if attempted by humans - leave it to nature. Does that sound negative? No I am not sorry. After a decade of my six to date on your planet no one has convinced me humans will manage for the best rather than manage for the worth!
Should people stop trying to manage then? Perhaps not - just like we should not give up democracy because look where it has got us now - look around the world - it could be a lot worse for everyone!
2. Invasive or introduced species v incomers or migrants? It's the same question - when and where do you draw the line on when they become local? Pike - nearly 200 years - damned incomers! Eastie beasties bringing their boats round to the west and fishing our waters with their strange speaking crews - since before the Second World War - piece of nonsense! Do you see the parallel?
I thought, while living in my SAAB continually commuting between Aultgrishan, ALL of Highland Region and SCOTTISH Parliament/Pentland House/ Victoria Quay it was a particular quirk of the Scots but, as I diversified and looked for differing opinions amongst our Norwegian neighbours I eventually came to the conclusion it is a problem with humans and capitalism. Worth will win. The judging comes from what humans value most - and that is a VERY touchy subject.
-
It would appear the proposals are "to rule out the criminalisation of freshwater fishing without written permission ". I would think that, in legal terms, with this wording the police will take the view that you are not committing an offence an offence if you are fishing in fresh water,irrespective of what may be swimming therein.
With " right to roam legislation", and " wild camping " being fully legal, this will trigger the end of angling as we know it. Convoys of buses will be heading north from the central belt every weekend.
-
if you read the right to roam Paper , it does not confer the right to fish, we have had the bus loads in the past , the bus loads came and the majority did buy permits ,it's what they left that was the problem, I hope you don't think the police will take any notice , they have had their fingers burnt too many times by clever poachers, we stopped worrying about it some time back, it's only people who have stocked lochs who may have worries, just go fishing :cool:easgach 1
-
I did not infer that the" right to roam" gave permission to fish.. It does however allow unhindered access outwith areas of private curtilage. If the proposals are taken at their current face value, you have the scenario whereby hordes of free fishing anglers will be flocking to the famous beats of our salmon rivers. ( even if only to supposably fish for trout ). This would wreck the fragile economy of Speyside, Deeside, and our other salmon river catchment areas.
It appears this has been proposed with a political view in mind by the SNP. Let us hope common sense will prevail in the longer term.
-
but you did infer that people would be able to roam, and this would give them access to fishing spots, it would be strange if the places you mention did not have a protection order which means that fishing with out a permit is not allowed, at least these places have Bailiffs, it's a bit like the statement that the right to roam would give all the thieves and burglars access to the country side, the only ones that did were the ones who didn't have the nous to work in the towns :X2 easgach 1
-
I may be wrong , but as far as I am aware, the River Don is the only water in north east Scotland covered by a brown trout PO.
However the proposals simply refer to free fishing in Fresh Water. Montrose, Aberdeen, Stonehaven, Peterhead, Turriff, Huntly,Inverurie, Elgin, Forres, Nairn, etc. etc. are all angling clubs which either rent, own, manage, or administer beats on north east rivers. These clubs are required to pay fishery board rates which are determined by the Assessor. The clubs get this money via the sale of permits, otherwise they would fold. The rivers would suffer accordingly.
Likewise the" free fishing in fresh water" does not stipulate that angling effort be restricted to any particular type of fish. As I said previously, if this ever goes ahead under the current proposals, it could be the death knell for Scotland as an attraction for atlantic salmon fishing on the global market.
Imagine arriving at your beat in the morning to be confronted by a bunch of "see you Jimmies" a' droonin worms an' ploutin bandies....... O dear !
-
didn't read that way, any way I'm not a salmon fisher, our club only has wild brown trout,I think you are talking about the worst case scenario, are you related to Nichola Sturgeon? :X2 I dont'think it's the hey Jimmies you have to worry about, some of our eastern European "friends " are much worse, My daughter is a pike fisher and a loch she used to fish has loads of pike barbecues around it, where the so called anglers cook every thing they catch, that's the future , so Brexit may have some Benefits :z12 easgach 1
-
My daughter is a pike fisher and a loch she used to fish has loads of pike barbecues around it, where the so called anglers cook every thing they catch,
Which is the exact reason that the withdrawal of the Wild Fisheries Bill bad.
Once more valuable resources remain completely unprotected.
-
But only for Pike fishers, Eh? :X2 easgach 1
-
But only for Pike fishers, Eh? :X2 easgach 1
You need to explain that one...
-
shouldn't have to Rob, I thought it was self explanatory,I know we cant have it all ways, but I didn't like the idea of seeing anglers become criminals, I am thinking of the Written permission part of the bill, the whole thing was un workable , the laws that exist are never policed , and who was going to be the Bailiffs,? the bloody Jobsworths as ever, our local fishery trust was just waiting to become a local management group and that would have been another disaster,I think the status quo is working OK and long may it do so, I was at one of the consultation meetings on behalf of our club, I could see it was fraught with difficulty and it was the angler that would pay in the long run, I think the Scottish Government thought it was another cash cow waiting to be milked, ::) easgach 1