Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Iain Cameron on 12/11/2015 at 08:22
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Just ever so slightly missing going fishing... so I bought one of those cheap nail knot tools - kind of elongated wedge shaped one with the open groove.
It's very good, simple to use. Been practising with old fly line and 15 & 20lb mono taking the role of what would be a permanently attached tapered leader. A winter pursuit of the perfect nail knot... getting the coils of mono to tighten up just right is an art
So, how many turns of mono would folk recommend? 5 seems too few, 6 or 7 about right...
i
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More on light line, less on heavier :)
6 seems to be the average for 12-15lb mono.
The thicker the mono the harder it is to sinch the knot down tight and therefore fewer turns are better. I think I am down to 3 turns on my 10 weight Pike lines and 30lb mono.
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3
any less doesn't hold well.
more is completely superfluous.
do pull and yank tests :wink
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i shall go home and do some yanking tonight!
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just be sure to not mix up your consonants ! :z4 :z4 :z4
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Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 12 November 2015, 16:15:25 (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7045.msg59694#msg59694)just be sure to not mix up your consonants ! :z4 :z4 :z4
I yon't. Found 3 was a little too easy to pull apart. Using an old mallard DT 3 or 4 stuffed in a box, so it is a thin ish fly line. I'll conduct further tests... yes, I am bored without fishing to amuse me
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It really depends on the diam. of the leader butt.
15lb - 20lb is quite thin for a leader butt. I'm guessing most factory-made tapered leaders for trout have a butt of at least 30lb, maybe more.
With factory-made tapered leaders 3 turns is plenty. Never had one go - even under extreme pressure.
With 15lb mono I can see that you're going to need more turns - I'm guessing 5 or 6? Be aware though that the more turns you have the harder it is to get a nicely seated knot.
Me? I'd go for a thicker leader butt.
Hope this helps.
Will
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I put in 5 turns when I nail knot. I like 5, it's like 4 only one more but also one less than six - which is nice.
H :wink
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Iain, i agree with Will. 15-20lb seems
daft erm... way too thin as a leader butt diameter to get any kind of controlled turnover.
what are you planning to use this for ?
thought you might find some use from this video from Tie Fast :z16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=611JWRtkjOc
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thanks Will, Marc
I was just using 15 & 20lb mono to practice with before attacking my actual fishing lines and leaders. Yup, too thin for the task.
I use the Leeda selecta leaders; not sure of actual butt diameter, but they claim to be 50% bigger then everyone else's butt, dontcha know!
Does anyone treat the finished nail knot with any glue type product, either to add strength or just to make the whole knot smooth?
i,
had a couple of failures with minicon connectors this year, so time for a change. Both times it was my fly lines being used by someone else, oddly. not had one fail while I was playing fish myself
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Iain
I think of you are using large butt leaders i'd go back to this
http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4567.msg47802#msg47802
I'm still doing exactly the same and never had a failure yet :z16
Sandy
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What Sandy said!
Best line to leader connection, EVAH!
Seriously though, very good turn over, and with a 2mm ring on the end tippet replacement is easy. For those of you who don't think rings are up to the task, salmon don't seem to mind so trout really don't give a sh@t.
:z1
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thanks Will, Marc
I was just using 15 & 20lb mono to practice with before attacking my actual fishing lines and leaders. Yup, too thin for the task.
I use the Leeda selecta leaders; not sure of actual butt diameter, but they claim to be 50% bigger then everyone else's butt, dontcha know!
Does anyone treat the finished nail knot with any glue type product, either to add strength or just to make the whole knot smooth?
i,
had a couple of failures with minicon connectors this year, so time for a change. Both times it was my fly lines being used by someone else, oddly. not had one fail while I was playing fish myself
Hey Iain
Interested to know the butt diam. of the Leeda ones. The one's I've seen always look really thin so I use either Rio or Orvis.
W.
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they don't seem give out butt section diameters Will, just the tips.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1362-161115123617.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=3195)
i just checked one i have in my spare kit- 15' 1x 7lb/3.1kg and the butt section's indeed thinner than typical Orvis, SA and Rio. (i don't have a micrometer but its very easy to see)
personally, i find the thinner diameter more appropriate for most trout-type fly lines whereas, the 'norm' is almost always outrageously too big/out of proportion.
Hanak http://www.hanak.eu/en/brand-hanak-competition/leaders/tapered-leaders seems to have better proportions. :z16
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I've always liked a thick butt!
W.
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So much for their claim to have 50% bigger butts then!
Found one ancient old packet for the 1x, 15ft, 7lb leeda - butt is 0.018" or 0.4572 millimetres. Or it was, on that old style one!
Have had a copy of Fly Fishing & FT sitting open at a page showing the superglue and needling the leader inside the flee line. Very neat. will give it a go one day (but not one for doing on the riverbank).
So, undoubtedly I'll now go away and experiment with leaders of varying butt diameter for a while. By experimenting, I mean go away and buy loads of different brands, try them in inconclusive, unscientific tests, chopping 5 feet off of the end of my favourite Smallstream in the process, before finally reverting back to using the Leeda ones anyway...
i,
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Have had a copy of Fly Fishing & FT sitting open at a page showing the superglue and needling the leader inside the flee line. Very neat. will give it a go one day (but not one for doing on the riverbank).
I confess that gives me the heebie-jeebies every time I try it. I get myself all psyched up to try the superglue (other fast acting glues are available) only 'knot' and I pussy out every time :oops
Odd when you consider I trust braided loops and superglue to do a lot of my Salmon 'rigging', on trout stuff I just cannot bring myself to to rely on a glued in connection betwixt leader and fly line.
So, undoubtedly I'll now go away and experiment with leaders of varying butt diameter for a while. By experimenting, I mean go away and buy loads of different brands, try them in inconclusive, unscientific tests, chopping 5 feet off of the end of my favourite Smallstream in the process, before finally reverting back to using the Leeda ones anyway...
Nice :z13
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That connection offers the best transition from fly line to leader that I've ever seen. No braided leader loop, no knots, I must confess that I was pretty unsure about this initially too, BUT ..........
I've watched Sandy play some pretty awesome trout over the last couple of seasons, I've certainly not seen any lack of confidence in his connection in the way he plays his fish ..... and I've not seen one fail :z4
Cheers
Mike
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Very neat. will give it a go one day (but not one for doing on the riverbank).
If you get a C&F needle / nail knot tool it is very easy on the river bank. It takes about five minutes or less once you get the hang of it and the join is very strong. i've had Rainbows to over 6lb on my #4 without an issue. If you trust the 2mm ring on the other end of the leader then the Superglued end is nothing to worry about.
The secret is the 60grit sandpaper that you carry to rough up the nylon that will end up inside the fly line. :z16
Try it on an old line and see how strong it is. All my trout lines have the connection done this way.
:z1
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No way am I going fishing with superglue in my pocket... i can see the potential for that ending very, very badly...
... let's just absent mindedly work some of this floatant into the body of the fly...
:-)
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Fair point Iain! :z4 :z4 :z4
:z1
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I'm keen to give the superglue connection a go next season. My question is what X tapered leader do most of you guys use? Length wise, around 9ft I'm guessing?
:z18
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I like the Leeda ones that Iain put me on to but apparently he now likes a bigger butt.... :X5
Orvis Superstrong are good too with both types 9' long. I also like the breaking strain to be bigger than the strongest tippet that I will ever use and all the leaders end in a Riverge 2mm ring.
:z1
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hi Liam
15 foot Leeda, 1x/7lb. i cut it back a couple of feet and use a tippet ring. then tippet & single fly, overall length around 14-15 feet.
it's a pretty durable, simple set up, maybe I'll need to re-tie the ring in after a few weeks' use if the tapered leader starts to get a bit messy, sometimes lasts months.
cheers
i,
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Thanks Iain sound advice! :z16
:z18
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Quote from: TheYoungGun on Today at 07:58:37 (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7045.msg59752#msg59752)Thanks Iain sound advice! :z16
Naw, that's Euan's job!
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I'm keen to give the superglue connection a go next season. My question is what X tapered leader do most of you guys use? Length wise, around 9ft I'm guessing?
:z18
Dude
I use the Orvis super strong 15ft leaders in 4x and 5x, i have 9ft 3x ones and 12ft 6x ones for some of my heavier and lighter lines (but don't use them much), but with the excpetion of August/September i fished the whole year on 15ft - 4x with the 5wt outfit. I dropped to the 6x in september when we were out just to fool the fish, which as you know seemed to be quite leader shy. :z16
Sandy
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Thanks Sandy. I'll get some ordered along with my regular Frog Hair ones and mess about with them. I see Orvis have a sale on them atm :z16
:z18