Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Mike Barrio on 29/10/2015 at 14:31
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One of the things that I noticed on my trip to Spain was that apart from always cleaning/treating their fly lines before starting to fish ( not something that we tend to do ) my friends also applied the line treatment to most of their leader ....... I asked them why and they said it was to help to keep it floating.
They were dry fly fishing, but I thought this was interesting because we tend to apply treatments like Fullers Earth to make our leaders sink.
Cheers
Mike
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I'm undecided, I hate leader flash so tend to de-grease using Fullers Earth. I also heard that trout see sunken leaders twice.... I believe it's due to the reflection of the surface film. Could someone with more knowledge elaborate on my thoughts?
:z18
Liam
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I asked them why and they said it was to help to keep it floating.
They were dry fly fishing,
two things first come to mind: where they catching ? :roll
and what type of water flow: slow, medium, fast ?
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Good point Marc,
Yes, they were catching more than I was :z4
The rivers had a good variety of pools and runs, but we were more successful in the pools. I didn't see if they were 'greasing' their leaders all the way to the fly or stopping short of that, if they were stopping short it was only a matter of inches.
One of my friends explained that this was to help to stop the leader from dragging his small fly under?
Cheers
Mike
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thanks Mike. strange and goes against my thoughts on the matter as i always make sure at least the last metre of tippet is well sunk but hey, if it works... :z4
on the same subject, when i was living in Sweden it was basically impossible to find any sink paste in any shop. the concept was unheard of. weirdos ! :z4
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I can't help wondering how much of this makes any difference to the fish ..... and if it perhaps makes more of a difference to our confidence :z4
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I'm undecided, I hate leader flash so tend to de-grease using Fullers Earth. I also heard that trout see sunken leaders twice.... I believe it's due to the reflection of the surface film. Could someone with more knowledge elaborate on my thoughts?
:z18
Liam
That's an interesting point Liam ...... anybody have any thoughts on the reflection theory?
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Not so much on the reflection theory Mike, but the bygone days, during the times of Halford, Skues et al, confidence, success & everything else depended on representation & presentation of the artificial, leaders were of less importance. The fish haven't evolved as quickly as fly fishing & the gear we use today.
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Personally, I think for 75% of the time the fish don't care. :)
I also think a lot has to do with the brightness of the sky. The higher the sun and the lower the sun means that the fish are hitting silhouettes and therefore a floating leader gets lost in the light. (that's my theory anyway). If the sky is a little dull, then the fish can see the fly and thus the leader far more clearly, so sinking might give the angler an advantage.
Fish are used to seeing all sorts of debris floating above there heads and unless a fish has been caught and released several times in a season, I doubt they associated a "leader" as dangerous in this context.
However, there are times (light conditions) where I think a sunk leader "may" help although I think an angler fishing with confidence is more likely to catch, so if sinking helps with this...they will catch :)
I also think that we forget that what a fish sees is very different to what we see. They are far more adapt at seeing things under the water than they are on top of the water.
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I couldn't care less :z16
If it sinks, it sinks, if it floats it floats, however what that does to the drag induced to fly is important. I do what is required to reduce the drag , which usually has far more to do with presentation casting than leader set-up.
But confidence is king, so whatever floats your boat (or leader in this case :z7)
:z18
Sandy
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Great replies ....... lots of thoughts that I would agree with :z16
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only time I really care is on smooth flat glides, when I can see my leader, and my confidence goes down, but even then I'd still be more worried about poor presentation/drag which two things are hard to hide on smooth water.
Anyway, it's unlikely that fish sees a leader and a fly and deduces that there's an idiot at the other end...
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When Dry Fly fishing, I hate being able to see my Leader/Tippet (in any conditions) based on the assumption that if I can see it, then the fish can see it. I am convinced that those slow approach, nosings and ultimate refusals are usually caused by the fish seeing a floating leader attached to the fly. "t'ain't natural!"
Like Iain says, my confidence drops dramatically if I can see my leader. I go through more mud than you can shake a stick at every season accordingly.
Ewan
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finally found it !
here's why leader tips shouldn't float.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1362-191115183017.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=3201)
what's missing in this pic are the shadows produced by the line and its reflections on the riverbed but that's not too hard to envision.
of course, this mostly applies to countries and places around the world where the sun actually shines... :roll :z4 :z7
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of course, this mostly applies to countries and places around the world where the sun actually shines... :roll :z4 :z7
Now that was a bit below the belt :z4 :z4 :z4
Nice pic :z16
The photo shows what we see from above the water, but is that what the trout see from below? :z3
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but is that what the trout see from below? :z3
they're pretty dumb but have good eyesight. its their main sense to find food, discern what to eat (good=eat bad=reject) and to detect predators. i very much doubt fish have the same vision as ours but its a no brainer when it comes to situations as in the pic above: sunlight causing reflections and shadows, some of those reflections being doubled/mirrored by the surface film etc.
basically, its Disco meets Star Wars laser sword flashy shit that no fish likes :z4 :z4 :z4
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basically, its Disco meets Star Wars laser sword flashy shit that no fish likes :z4 :z4 :z4
Want this we don't :z4 :z4 :z4
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The photo shows what we see from above the water, but is that what the trout see from below? :z3
which reminds me of how eye-opening it is to take some kit to the swimming pool (or in warmer climes :roll) and see for one's self.
i've done this and highly recommend it. beats doing laps any day... :z4
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I've done this plenty times as well but mostly on running water with a couple of times on lochs; it's called falling in :z4 :z4
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:z4 :z4 :z4
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Now that was a bit below the belt :z4 :z4 :z4
Nice pic :z16
The photo shows what we see from above the water, but is that what the trout see from below? :z3
Nope....there are some photos somewhere on the interweb thingy of flies from below taken with a camera with an adapt lense to show what fish see. It is very different to what we see.
Some good if not long reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_in_fishes
I found this very interesting.... "Ultraviolet vision is sometimes used during only part of the life cycle of a fish. For example, juvenile brown trout live in shallow water where they use ultraviolet vision to enhance their ability to detect zooplankton. As they get older, they move to deeper waters where there is little ultraviolet light."